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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Neglect or just crap parenting?

401 replies

selly24 · 25/10/2016 16:27

Leaving a child age 5 alone in house while running an errand taking 15 mins.
A friend seems to do this a lot. Not witnessed directly but from what parent had said eg ' DC woke up and I was on errand so was upset with me' and from what child refers to or assumes.
Eg when babysitting -' oh, why do I need to come when you go do X? Parent always leaves me here.
Was mortified when first heard bu thought prob a one off, as parent's OH was away, but seems to be a regular thing...am increasingly concerned. Should I be.?

OP posts:
Mumoftwinsandanother · 25/10/2016 22:34

I don't know about your situation OP. I think if the child is distressed its definitely not good parenting. Whether its risky/neglect will depend upon whether there are neighbours available, if the child is able to summon help if needed and how far away parent is going. It sounds like you don't have these details but I think I would be minded to find out a bit more if possible just to check.
Regarding my own children, I wouldn't have left them home alon at 5 although they were very sensible (and twins so they sort of watched out for each other etc). However, at 8 nearly 9 I leave them alone to walk my little one to school (about 15 minutes in total, 5 mins there, 5 mins back and 5 mins wait/handover). I never worry about them in that regard tbh. They are very slothful, very unlikely to do anything but watch tv until I come back to force them to leave the screen alone etc. They have about 5 neighbours who they could contact in an emergency. I would trust them to walk to my ds school if they needed to and dads number is taped to the phone ( he is always available and phones the house during the day and would be straight home if a problem). They know how to use a phone and how to dial 999. They know to leave the house in case of a fire/not to answer the door. Its not impossible there will be a problem but its a weighed risk and that's all you can do in life over everything with your dc. People weigh risks differently and people who are more cautious always assume they are by definition "better parents" imo they are not they are just more anxious parents (went to a dinner party recently where the mums all agreed that in our low crime small town they wouldn't keep the upstairs windows open at night in Summer in case someone broke in and captured their DC - tbh this risk had never crossed my mind, I don't imagine that there are hosts of people roaming the street thinking about kidnapping my DC).

vdbfamily · 25/10/2016 22:34

For those criticising Press for asking her child for her opinion, it is not letting the child make the decision. Press had already risked assessed that it was a safe thing to do, but in engaging the child in the decision, you are ensuring they have no anxiety about the situation. They may one day say yes, they would like to come. In that situation it would be negligent to leave them as they were anxious. If they are happy to be left for a few minutes then IMO it is fine. I too am left open mouthed on these threads that there are parents who would not leave a 9/10/11 year old unsupervised. My oldest at 11 was catching a bus and train with her friend to nearest big town to shop for the day. At the age of 5 she once stepped off a train on the outskirts of Stockholm (very small village)and the doors closed and trained pulled off. She had recognised that we had reached the station where we were staying but we had not noticed. We had to decide in that instant whether to pull emergency cord and stop the train.Next station was a couple of minutes away so we continued and DH jumped off and ran back to previous stop. Our 5 year old had found a local lady who spoke English and had showed her the way back to the family we were staying with and they were almost home. We did not know what she would do but knew she was sensible for her age and unlikely to panic. Thoughts of her being kidnapped etc would not have crossed my mind....it is just so unlikely an event that I do not know why people spend so much time worrying about it.

MaQueen · 25/10/2016 22:35

Well, I have plenty of headspace because I don't have to ever ponder the consequences of risking my child's safety unnecessary...

clumsyduck · 25/10/2016 22:37

mumof

Almost 9 is very different to 5 though !!!

footballmum · 25/10/2016 22:37

The "only 5 minutes" argument is a spurious one though. A couple of months ago I left my 10 and 12 year old DSs while I popped to the shop. Told them I'd be 10 mins max. I didn't bother to take my phone with me.

I drove up a narrow side street and got stuck behind a bin lorry which then got into a Mexican stand off with a Tesco delivery truck coming the other way! I had 4 or 5 cars behind me so I couldn't turn around so I just had to wait it out. 45 minutes later I got back home and said to the boys I was sorry I'd been longer than expected. Obviously they hadn't even noticed I'd been gone longer than 10 mins 😏

In my case it didn't matter given the age of my DSs but what could have happened if I'd left a 5 year old? My point is that you can't manage risk when there are always unpredictable (often very undramatic, as in my case) things that can happen.

Armi · 25/10/2016 22:38

Threads like this make me realise I don't much like Mumsnet. I simply cannot accept that it's OK to leave a small child at home alone yet so many people seem to think it's perfectly fine and want to make out that responsible parenting is something to be sneered at. It's bullshit. If you leave a little one at home alone you are a shit parent - your job is to care for that child and 5 year olds are too little to be left without an adult to turn to for help.

DixieNormas · 25/10/2016 22:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HappyCamel · 25/10/2016 22:39

I saw a mom on a thread over here in the US complain that she couldn't be expected to return her shopping trolley to the collection bay because it would mean leaving the children alone in the car. That's a round trip of about 30 secs.

There's no way a 5 year old could be left alone over here. CPS
would have a fit.

milkysmum · 25/10/2016 22:40

My local shop is less than a minute away ( end of our road) and I do regularly nip to the shop if I need to and leave the DC at home alone for a couple of mins ( they are 5 and 7 years) sometimes the 7 year old will nip for me which is great. It's a decision I have taken and am comfortable with. They both also play out unsupervised which I'm sure lots also disapprove of.

clumsyduck · 25/10/2016 22:44

And I'm really not liking this assumption that not leaving 5 year old home alone means we must all be over anxious helicopter type parents !!
I leave bedroom windows open in summer
He runs off and plays in parks / play areas with his friends with me normally sat chatting not hovering over him !
He plays at friends houses In their gardens or upstairs out of sight from me
He has his own life and friendships etc at school without me
I do not spend my life watching him like a hawk ! He is very independent and confident . But I still would not leave him in the house alone aged 5!!

couldntlovethebearmore · 25/10/2016 22:45

Not many people when their kids have grown up safe and well will think 'gosh I wish I'd have protected them less' you know the total opposite to what those parents/children less fortunate will think

crashdoll · 25/10/2016 22:46

I roll my eyes at some parents who won't leave their 1 2 year old alone while they put the bins out and cut up grapes till their child is 7 (assuming no additional needs) but there is an element of competitive lax parenting on here. There's good old hyperbole too "oh I'd like to see what social services say when my 11 year old comes from school alone" as if social workers (and others on here) are so thick that they can't differentiate being a normal milestone of a pre-teen and a child of FIVE.

Give that the majority of childhood accidents happen in the home, you can be damn sure that I'll minimise the risk while my child is young. There is age appropriate boundaries but things like leaving them home alone is for them to learn to be independent, not to make your life easier.

And a social worker, parent and human being, I think it's poor parenting to leave such a young child to run errands. Whether it's reach the threshold for intervention is another matter. You can be sure that a referral will be made if that child tells a school teacher though. Is if really worth the stress because you can't be arsed?!

Presstheresetbutton · 25/10/2016 22:46

Thank you VDB. Thats exactly the point. I would never leave a child who was anxious about being left. Your DD sounds fabulous!

My DD is the one who organised all the other kids when the school bus didn't turn up and they were all panicking about how to get home as they had been driven to the bus stop! She walked to the next stop along and got the public bus to school and told the other kids which one they needed. She was in year 7!

crashdoll · 25/10/2016 22:47

^^ lots of typos and grammar errors, oops!

couldntlovethebearmore · 25/10/2016 22:49

Well press I'm sure she's super confident and very wonderful in all ways but she's not immortal due to the fact she's a small child and supervision and protection is required. The kids who go missing/get hit by cars/accidentally set fire to their house always seem to mention how smart/wise their kid was before the incident

Patsy99 · 25/10/2016 22:50

Crash - that was my comment about the 11 year old after school.

Pp said they got a stern letter about neglect from SS for leaving 10 & 11 year old children alone for short period.

Absent special circumstances I do think that social worker is thick.

Presstheresetbutton · 25/10/2016 22:50

I disagree that there is competitive lax parenting.

If anything I think people won't post because they are called neglectful, lazy and bad parents. Which just feeds the cycle of fear even more.

ollieplimsoles · 25/10/2016 22:50

responsible parenting is something to be sneered at. It's bullshit. If you leave a little one at home alone you are a shit parent - your job is to care for that child and 5 year olds are too little to be left without an adult to turn to for help.

I agree with this ^

If you really are just popping out, there is no reason not to take your five year old with you.

Starlight2345 · 25/10/2016 22:52

My DS 9 has not been left on his own..He plays out on the street but knows where I am for support..

It is my job to parent him and that means he is under my supervision at all times unless it is handed over to another adult.

I do remember my DS playing a marble game and I walked in from the Kitchen he had filled his mouth with marbles. He was about 4/5 long past the age I would expect him to put them in his mouth..Fortunately he empties his mouth safely..

I Don't really care if my DS wants to come and buy bread and milk. I have pointed out to him before cleaning and shopping are not my hobby but something I have to do. As he eats the milk and bread he can come to. I have no idea why people are discussing with their 5 year old parenting decisions

Ask a reception teacher how many random things children do in a day.

crashdoll · 25/10/2016 22:53

You have no idea of the circumstances surrounding that letter Patsy. People aren't always as open, honest and truthful as they'd like to think. The report may have been malicious, it may have been the tip of the iceberg. It may have been a standard letter.

SemiNormal · 25/10/2016 22:56

More than two million children under the age of 15 experience accidents in and around the home every year, for which they are taken to accident and emergency units. Why would anyone want to increase that risk? I'm a single parent and have been since my son was about 2yrs old, I've never ever felt the need to leave him for just 5 or 10 minutes.

www.rospa.com/home-safety/advice/child-safety/accidents-to-children/

crashdoll · 25/10/2016 22:58

I don't know any social worker who thinks it's ok to routinely leave a child of 5/6 years old to run basic errands on a regular basis. It's not that we think it's terrible, neglectful or damaging parenting. It's probably what is termed "good enough". If you had a splitting headache and were desperate or any other urgent situation for 5 minutes, I could get that. To routinely decide to leave a child when statistically, most accidents happen in the home, isn't up my street at all. We all do things that aren't perfect and we all make decisions that others would judge. It's the active decision that bothers me.

Patsy99 · 25/10/2016 22:59

Agreed Crash, could be all sorts of circumstances. But the letter was being quoted by PP as evidence of what SS considered unacceptable.

If so, I'd reject the opinion and ignore the letter.

avamiah · 25/10/2016 23:00

Footballmum,
Your 100 percent correct and this is a fantastic post and actually made me think how ridiculous I have been myself as I have popped to Tesco across the road numerous times to pick up 'cat food, bonjela and even a jar of coffee and left my 6 year old watching cartoons for 10 mins because it was raining and I thought by the time I have put shoes and coat on and found umberella for her I would be back .
But what if something happened and I wasn't back in 10 mins.
Never again.

Presstheresetbutton · 25/10/2016 23:03

Semi, 2 million is a great number to quote. I wonder how many of them include ridiculous things like bumped his head/stubbed his toe/stuck something up his nose. Guessing they all count as 'accidents' and child was fine.

A&E is always full of parents whose kids are running around fine after an accident.

I'm not saying accidents don't happen. My lovely friends DD nearly hung herself messing around with a dressing gown belt on her bunk bed. That kind of accident scares the hell out of me. And choking (which is why DC know to wait until I get home to make food).