The Duke of York wants his daughters to be full time Royals?

[MidnightVelvetthe7th]

www.express.co.uk/news/royal/724136/prince-andrew-requests-princesses-beatrice-eugenie-kensington-prince-charles-queen-william

This is a Sunday Express link, not a Fail one.

So Andrew wants both of his daughters to have full time royal roles funded by the public & have larger apartments at Kensington Palace. Given that the only time I ever see them in the news is for dreadful outfits & holidays, to me they are embarrassing & a bit cringy.

Andrew is complaining that they are overshadowed by William, Catherine & Harry. But if you believe & support a system of privilege by birth such as the monarchy, then it stands to reason that the direct heirs are more important than the rest.

Does Andrew have a point & IABU?!

I suppose you can't really be the head of the Church of England if you are a catholic - I mean we're never going to have a protestant pope either, it's just not compatible.

At least not people don't get shunted out the line of succession for marrying a catholic. That was a long, long overdue change and it's good that one was made retrospective.

Yes, you're right puzzled, it was an annulment. Still has an open marriage though

The queen though should not be defined by any religion. Apparently we are all meant to be her "subjects" They shouldn't be able to have it all ways. Before the laws about marrying Catholics was relaxed, the monarch wasn't barred from marrying a person of any other religion, just Catholic.

It's all nonsense of course, although I do find it interesting. Just a thought - Princess Alexandra and the York daughters, who would take precedence? All blood princesses, all granddaughters of a monarch through a male line.

Fascinating stuff all this royal and constitutional talk. It's a pity Norman St.John Stevas isn't still with us. He was a real expert on these matters.

I suppose you can't really be the head of the Church of England if you are a catholic - I mean we're never going to have a protestant pope either, it's just not compatible.

Sure. If you view them as private clubs, they should have the right to say the head of the organization must be a member.

But that's a good reason to separate the church from the state.

It's all nonsense of course

Until you tab up all the state money, assets and privileges they get. Then it's gets more serious.

I think Camilla and Kate take precedence over Royal Princesses as long as Charles or William is with them. They take their husband's status then and so Royal Princesses have to curtsey to them. It is only if they are unaccompanied that the others take precedence over them and they have to curtsey to the princesses.

This just gets madder, about who has to bob and not bob, but in a strangely interesting way.

I bet Kate makes sure she never has to bob to Beatrice and Eugenie. I know I fucking wouldn't.

Before the laws about marrying Catholics was relaxed, the monarch wasn't barred from marrying a person of any other religion, just Catholic.

Yes, but that was really the only religion that presented a threat. And it wasn't even necessary to bar other religions. There weren't many non-Christians around and it would have been unthinkable for most Christians to marry them let alone a royal so legislation wasn't needed.

Catholics on the other hand had a history of causing trouble by being married to monarchs - particularly Mary of Modena to James II. And it's important to remember that those laws shouldn't be viewed through a modern prism of discriminating against a minority. They were formulated at a time when the Catholic Church was incredibly powerful, the inquisition active and Mary I's persecution of Protestants a fairly recent memory. They were very much a defence against Catholicism regaining a foothold here which could potentially have led to the persecution, torture and death of much of our population.

The Queen decides the Order of Precedence for the Royal Family but not the one for national ceremonial occasions eg Dukes, earls, bishops, baronets etc. So she can fiddle with the royal one as suits her. First is HM The Queen, next HRH the Duke of Edinburgh - no changing that on any occasion. Charles is always after those two.

I suppose you can't really be the head of the Church of England if you are a catholic - I mean we're never going to have a protestant pope either, it's just not compatible.

There are some conspiracy theorists who claim Carole Middleton (nee Goldsmith) is secretly Jewish, which would make Kate Jewish too. And George, the future head of the C of E!

I thought Henry V111 broke away from the catholic faith purely so he could divorce Catherine of Arogan?

Princess Alexandra and the York daughters, who would take precedence? All blood princesses, all granddaughters of a monarch through a male line.

Alexandra I'd imagine, due to a "respect your elders" thing, as I imagine Anne, would never be expected to bow to the Yorks though they are above her in the line of succession.

hope

Yes, essentially, but influenced by Cromwell and Anne Boleyn, other ecclesiastical matters also changed. It led to the Bible and services in English not Latin for example whereas Catholic Mass remained Latin until the 20th Century.

Transubstantiation is not believed in, and praying directly to Our Lady fell out of favour - but initially and still in many ways High Anglican bears very little difference to Catholic Mass.

My very catholic Grandmother knew all the prayers used at the funeral of QM

I thought Henry V111 broke away from the catholic faith purely so he could divorce Catherine of Arogan?

There was a big protestant movement at the time which he was interested in.

The catholic church was more powerful than the individual monarch because it covered all the European countries, so if the pope did not like something, he would have to concede to the pope. The arch bishop of Canterbury at the time had just built a new palace - and it was bigger than the King's - Hampton Court Palace.

And he wanted a divorce.

Actually, banning catholic spouses had yet another bad effect, in restricting the "pool" of those considered suitable - just think of all those european royal houses whose offspring might otherwise have been in the running

Given the bunch of freaks and weirdos among the Windsors, it might have been sensible to cast the net a little wider than protestants only; just think, it might even have been possible to find someone who could actually remain married to some of the leading members

There was a big protestant movement at the time which he was interested in.

No, he wasn't interested in Protestantism. His last wife Catherine Parr was nearly executed for her interest in it. We essentially had an independent Catholic Church until his son Edward succeeded and went full on Prod.

Wasn't the persecution against Catholics (at a later time) far worse and over a longer period than the persecution of Protestants by Catholics?

The "who bows to who" malarkey makes me think of the Armed Forces and some military wives.

DH is in the RAF and holds a fairly senior rank. We don't live on base (thank god!) but I've heard tales of some wives "assuming their husbands rank" at social gatherings and using it to lord over the wives of more junior officers.

We British really do have a problem with Class and social standing!

No, the Spanish Inquisition was widespread and awful. Protestants never really came anywhere close to it. I think some historians argue that Elizabeth I was just as bad as Mary I in the opposite direction, but other historians think that she was much more tolerant and only acted when forced, but Mary was dogmatic about her beliefs and persecuted for the sake of enforcing Catholicism rather than for political expediency or to neutralise threats to her power.

Henry VIII loved catholicism and wrote a very learned defence against Luther - hence the title 'Defender of the Faith' which the Pope gave to Henry VIII and is still used by our monarchs.

He needed a divorce as he only had a daughter and was desperate for a son and Catherine of Aragon (who Henry VIII was quite fond of) couldn't give him one. The Pope normally granted divorces quite happily in cases of succession but Catherine's nephew (?Charles) had a very large army very close to the Pope and didn't want to lose influence at the English court.

Henry's determination to stay away from Protestantism meant that the Church of England was never as Protestant as some would have liked.

During the sixteenth, seventeenth and even into the eighteenth century, Catholicism was used to justify or as an excuse for rebellion against the Crown. It was often identified as an excuse for foreign interference. The ban on marrying a Catholic had more to do with foreign policy than religion.

I really feel for Beatrice and Eugenie. They have a pushy mum that loves showing herself as 'best friends' with her daughters and they are getting pushed into a life that their father wants. They don't understand 'real life' as I understand it, but it isn't their fault. I do wonder if they have a stylist and whether the stylist always gets it right.

I don't think anyone came away from the wars of religion with their hands clean

A lot of it was political as well as religious. The Pope was happy to encourage anyone to rebel against/invade and overthrow Elizabeth I and it's one of the things that signed Mary Queen of Scots' death warrant - she was used as a figurehead for any Catholic conspiracy.

Who is Princess Alexandra? I've never heard of her!

Princess Alexandra is the daughter of another of King Georges Sons.

Queen Elizabeth's father's younger brothers daughter.

Henry VIII was always a true Catholic. with the exception of his great matter (divorce) he would have no one set above him.

She's the sister of Prince Michael of Kent & the Duke of Kent.