To think enough is enough, time to have a re-vote on brexit

[jdoe8]

I'm still having problems sleeping with brexit, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night thinking it was just a nightmare. But its real and with each day it gets worse.

Now the banks are saying they will leave the UK, as we are 80% services and the banks are a very significant part of this it will be catastrophic for the UK economy.

Most of the people i know that voted to brexit now regret their decision so why not have another vote on it?

[IssyStark]

YANBU in wanting a way out of this mess, but YABU in thinking that a second referendum is the way to go.

Cameron was wrong to say it would be binding. It was an advisory referendum** and as such did not have a quorum set. If it had been a policy making referendum then there would have been a target based in percentage of the total electorate so that we wouldn't be in the position of 37% of the total electorate dictating to the rest of us.

The way to get some common sense into the debate is to allow Parliament to vote on the type of Brexit deal we're going for OR, even better, for there to be an election and parties to stand as either Remain or pro-hard Brexit.

[OfaFrenchmind2]

LadyConstanceDeCoverlet you would think so (I did at some point, saw myself move to Frankfurt), but not really. They may move some offices, or make plan for it, but that is mostly for show, to build up the negociation. They know they have now leverage to obtain better fundings from BoE, lobby for lower corporate tax, so they are announcing their possible departure to scare politics and and Joe Public.

[PetalMettle]

I don't see why those areas that voted no are being mollycoddled - eg this obsession with getting Nissan to say. Sunderland wanted out, let them take the consequences

[itsawonderfulworld]

I think another ref when the deal is worked out and we know what we're voting for would be reasonable.

Except that at that point we'll already be out. Negotiations will take YEARS. Once A50 is triggered the clock starts ticking. 2 years to the day later we're out and revert to WTO terms of trade. That's if we manage to rejoin the WTO in that time, which doesn't seem likely either.

During those 2 years, the EU just has to sit back and watch us self-destruct. They hold all the cards.

And if we were to somehow decide to halt the madness st some point in those 2 years (either by referendum or parliamentary vote), that would achieve nothing. Because A50 can't be revoked by the initiator. We'd have to beg the other 27 countries to let us stay. Every single one of them would have veto rights. No way they'd let us keep our very special status (huge membership rebate etc).

Once A50 is triggered, we're out, and not on our terms, I still hope that the madness can be halted but it has to be BEFORE March. If Democracy is to be preserved, there HAS to be a vote in Parliament BEFORE A50 is triggered.

[PickledCauliflower]

Sunderland is a deprived area with high unemployment. I don't think people there have been mollycoddled.
Pre and post eu referendum, companies threaten to relocate or cut shifts etc - negotiations take place to try to avoid redundancies. I wouldn't describe this as mollycoddling.
Big business are always threatening relocations to get better deals. I don't think it has anything to do with staying in the EU or leaving.

[birdybirdywoofwoof]

It is all so depressing and the fact that people are still coming out with 'oh I'm sure we can cope!' shows how little people comprehend how fucked we are. Ho hum.

[PetalMettle]

Nissan were very clear about the impact a no vote would have though, so I think it's difficult to say it's nothing to do with it www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/engineering/11842649/Nissan-denies-scare-mongering-over-Brexit-as-it-invests-100m-in-Sunderland-plant.html

[pipsqueak25]

we're going regardless, some people need to learn to adapt to it, there were massive changes when we first went into the common market in the early '70's, a lot of people were scared about that happening and there was no referendum then. we just got on with it.

[PickledCauliflower]

If Nissan and other big companies can make their goods cheaper they will. If it means relocating they will relocate.
There has been a manufacturing drain in the UK for years as it's an expensive country to manufacture from.
When the minimum wage was introduced big businesses threatened to go and some did. if they had there way, there would be no minimum wage and we would be making their goods for the pleasure of it.
They will always threaten, sometimes they carry it out and sometimes they don't.
We have been living in austerity for years now, job insecurity is a way of life for most of us.

[pipsqueak25]

birdy we will cope with it because we have to, what's the alternative ? just because we voted out doesn't mean the uk is going to self destruct and life will end as a result.
you are only fucked when there is no hope what so ever and nothing what so ever can be done, there are no alternatives.
some people really are making a massive drama out of this, better to be in this situation than living in a bloody war zone.

[ToastDemon]

I think it's all very well saying people will have to learn to adapt to it, but the thing is some people won't have the option of adapting - they'll be stuffed.
DH and I should be okay - we've got a decent level of savings, equity (although that could vanish I suppose), he's a high earner, I have a STEM degree and we've lived and worked abroad (non-EU) and could do so again. I have two passports. We speak three additional European langues between us, not massively fluently but that could be improved upon.
So we'll be okay, one way or another. It might possibly scupper our short to medium term plans but yes we can adapt if necessary.
But there's plenty who have already been severely shafted who won't find it easy at all in this brave new world we're heading for.

[harshbuttrue1980]

The national media is owned by rich people in the south east, and its these people who have been stirring up worries about Brexit. The metropolitan elites are worried about the wages for nannies, cleaners and gardeners rising when they can't get away with exploiting people coming from poorer EU countries. If there was another vote tomorrow, the result would be the same - the chattering classes based around London would be pro EU, and the rest of the people (who outnumber the chattering classes) would vote to leave.

[ToastDemon]

harsh these are not the people who are going to get screwed. But nice way to dismiss nearly half the country btw.

[ToastDemon]

Especially since it was national media like the Mail and the Sun who ensured the Brexit vote.

[user1471448556]

The consequences of Brexit will be long lasting. The weak pound is just the beginning and this will mean food and fuel will be more expensive for all. Businesses importing raw materials and reliant on transportation will see costs soar and margins shrink. People will be laid off. There'll be less money around to spend on shopping, on restaurants, etc. so more people lose their jobs. If we do trigger article 50 there sh@t will really hit the fan - companies will relocate in other EU countries, tax receipts will fall dramatically ... the NHS and schools will be screwed and sold off to the highest bidder. And we'll be stuck here with little chance to leave unless we have a desired skill set. This is not the future I want for my children. It is not the vision that was sold to leave voters. It was advisory - non-binding. If it had been binding the government would have been required to set a minimum turnout and a minimum percentage of the vote (in most civilised countries that would be 60%). We need to think again before it's too late.

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

Every time i read a 'brexit' thread the same democracy and the people have voted quotes come up

the referendum as many people have already said was advisory and, again as someone upthread said, democracy does not mean that the 'losers' have to shut up.

And indeed many leavers may well be unhappy at some of the aspects of brexit in the same way that some remainers would be unhappy if we had remained and the government had used that to bring in closer ties to the EU

[pipsqueak25]

good call rufus you can't please all the people...

[birdybirdywoofwoof]

Harsh but true, that's not correct re voting demographic.

Pipsqueak, Countries aren't always in a bloody war zone. Many were thriving democracies and economies once. So many British people seem to think shit can't happen here. Like we're impervious from it or something. Do people not know their history? our economy, our peace IS precarious. The referendum and the Leave victory have made it a thousand times more so.

Still they have their control back so that's good.

[jdoe8]

We'll adapt ... just like all the mining communities did and are now thriving?!

[ClaudiaApfelstrudel]

harshbuttrue1980 - the newspapers are not owned by people in the South East they're owned by Rupert Murdoch, who is not a citizen of this country nor does he pay tax here

[andalucia7868]

@ofa

I'm sure your position will change when you are made redundant!

A close relative was affected when Barclays cut hundreds of jobs following the so called "clamp down" by Cameron. They (Barclays) made it clear, if the fines continue, they'd have to cut jobs to save money.

Yes there is a lot of greed in that sector but ultimately, they all run multinational businesses and profit is the main goal.

Moving offices abroad does not mean demise of a bank, most banking products are offered & administered online ( I've not set foot in a branch in almost 2 years & millions of customers out there are comfortable banking entirely online ) but ultimately a move abroad will hurt jobs, thousands of them.

Don't cut your nose to spite your face!

[Billybong67]

Most ot my friends voted out for immigration alone. Nothing else. They admitted they didn't have a clue about it to be honest, just fancied a change and don't like their "towns being overrun with poles" I found it all a bit depressing when I found out actually.

I think we are a fairly racist country to be honest particularly in the North where I live and certainly in the older generation.

There will be a few twitchy families in Sunderland that's for sure because if Nissan pull out that is a hell of a lot of workers affected!

Time will tell on this one.

[Homebird90]

Cameron couldn't have been clearer that the outcome would be binding.

Cameron said in his last PMQs that Parliament would get to vote on the various models of exiting the EU...

Nobody knows wtf brexit means before, during or after the referendum. Unless there is clear benefit to leaving the EU it shouldn't be an automatic inevitability.

[specialsubject]

before Jun 23rd: real inflation about 2%, unstable jobs (as always), EU not prepared to negotiate terms, divided country, racism around although illegal.

now - pound lower but still 10% up on 2007 against Euro, much higher than all-time low against dollar. Stock market v.high. The rest - no change.

is brexit a good thing? Who knows, uncharted territory. Did something have to change? Yes. Are you still in a relatively safe democracy with access to a toilet, clean water, free education and healthcare, etc etc? Yes. Will that change as a result of Brexit? No.

should complex questions go to a yes/no? Of course not. Too late!

is endless growth sustainable or desirable? Not in my book. Is brexit a risk? Yes. Will it pay off? Let's see.

[PetalMettle]

That's the thing though - we are being told automotive will pay to access single market - which is basically all about Nissan. Greg Clark is spending his life in Japan at the minute, suggesting the same. So basically we will get screwed because Sunderland voted out and they will be fine.
And for those saying it was just the metropolitan elite who voted in, it was actually far more age based. Plus y'know not everyone in London is loaded