to let dd go vegan (at least partly)?

[marvelousdcomics]

DD is 14 and wants to go vegan. She has presented me with facts, statistics etc. She wants to do it for her health, animal cruelty and the environment. Due to her past EDs (anorexia, bulimia & binge eating) I've said as long as she doesn't start cutting her calories ir anything, we'll see how it goes. DP is completely opposed to it, however. He says we need meat & dairy etc. Should I let her? I was going to insist on including fish occasionally but DP is even against that. WWYD?

My dsis is veggie, used to be vegan but she admits she couldn't hack it.

She did a hell of a lot of research, and I don't mean swallowing the propaganda from the likes of PETA or the multitude of pro vegan / animal rights groups - I mean proper research from independent, qualified dietitians.

She came to the conclusion that without devoting an awful lot of time and effort into her food that veggie was the best she could do without becoming deficient in one type of nutrient or another.

She explained it to me at the time and the finer points have gone out of my memory but in a nutshell most vegans (and many veggies) are deficient in some way or another it's just that the human body can take a hell of a lot of punishment and the effects don't show for years if ever, so they probably don't know that they're lacking.

Often the effects never show in an identifiable way that can be traced back to the dietary choices , it might just be that some ailment comes on years down the line that wouldn't have appeared otherwise (or would have appeared years later).

Your DD is a bit young to be doing that, she's still developing and needs correct nutrition. Personally I'd make her really convince me that she's done all the research on nutrition and knows her stuff. Again, I mean research papers, scientific journals etc... not the usual shit propaganda from the pro-vegan , 'meat is murder' extremists.

Just cutting out meat, switching to tofu and soy milk ain't going to cut it! I'd want her to understand exactly what nutrition she is currently getting from meat / dairy etc and show me what she's going to eat to replace those nutrients. Then I'd be monitoring her diet to make sure she does what she says.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking veganism if done correctly. It IS possible to have a balanced diet as a vegan, it's just very, very , very hard to achieve and the vast majority do not achieve it.

I've been vegan since I was 13 (now mid 20s) and it was such a relief having supportive parents. They never pushed me to eat anything I didn't want to and, while both still continue to eat meat, were always really respectful of my choices.

I have other friends whose parents tried to sneak ham into their meals or make their lives miserable, and it just created a huge disconnect and they still have tense relationships with their parents. We're now in our mid 20s.

Instead of making her eat fish, I think the most important thing when you're starting out is not cutting out food, but replacing it. Maybe get a vegan recipe book and learn a few fun recipes together?

You have one super smart dd!! Going vegan is the best thing I've ever done for my health an allergies.

chuck They do a vegan quorn now

Yes they might well do. But bog standard quorn is not.

I really am torn over this. We do (apart from DH) eat mostly vegan anyway (cheaper & healthy). I am really worried that it will develop into another ED. I may compromise with her - we will eat less animal produce but not go fully vegan. I'm not sure yet though. DH is still where he was before.

Eating any unbalanced diet based on excessive amounts of carbs, fats or proteins is far from healthy.
My first concern is fat soluble vitamins A D E K. Huge amount of medical research links list of medical conditions to D deficiency.

Statistics also do not show that vegan or vegetarian diets are superior when it comes to health outcomes. For example India where high number of people are vegetarian is one of the top countries when it comes to incidence of diabetes and incidence in Iceland, mainly meat-eaters , is surprisingly low. Lithuania - leading EU country when it comes to incidence of cardiovascular disease, but consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol among the lowest. Interestingly cholesterol levels in this population are also the lowest.
Your Daughter must take good quality supplements. Cod liver oil is one of them. For good supplements you can check Nutrigold. Chemically those should be better then regular high street brands. On they site you'll find plenty of information about nutrition.
Also check out Weston price foundation site they have good articles on how to choose supplements and various other nutritional topics.
Let your daughter do it but watch her really closely so you can intervene if something go wrong.

bog standard quorn is not.
no one said it was

it's impossible to have a balanced diet as a vegan
ignorance

maninawomansworld01
In your comments you could have replaced veggie/vegan with carnivore and it would have made more sense. Point me to ANY research that confirms your claims.

In 2013 the NHS reported that vegetarians had a 12% reduction in the risk of death from any cause compared with non-vegetarians.

Its just common sense, Vegan foods are cholesterol-free, generally low in saturated fat, high in fibre, complex carbohydrates, and other essential nutrients. They’re also packed with protein and cancer-fighting phytochemicals.

In contrast, meat, eggs, and dairy products are high in artery-clogging cholesterol, saturated fat, and calories. They don’t contain fibre or various vitamins, and the hormones, toxins, and antibiotics that are often found in animal-based food have been linked to a string of health problems.

Its not what made me a vegan but its sure as hell why I stay one.

Point me to ANY research that confirms your claims.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3515293/Vegetarian-diet-raises-risk-heart-disease-cancer.html
This one was picked by the media.

If you can stand reading boting scientific research papers I can point you to those as well.

Statistics about cholesterol, heart disease and diabetes you can also find on WHO site.

Huge amount of medical research links list of medical conditions to D deficiency.

Yes that's true and for example there has been a massive increase in vitamin D deficiency in America, which does not have high levels of vegetarians/vegans. However research is suggesting this is probably due to increasing use of sunscreen and long sleeves following skin cancer-prevention campaigns. Using sun cream with as little as a factor 15 protection cuts the skin's vitamin D production by 99 percent.

Interesting this is not the case with vegetarians/vegans who get an ample supple of Vitamin D, in for example soya milk.

Prostolos13, its pretty clear the Daily Fail is NOT an source of factual information. What is the link to the actual study that shows that?

artery-clogging cholesterol,

You also a bit behind in your scientific knowledge on the actual pathological process of atherosclerosis. Check universities you tube channels there are good educational videos on the topic.
When you do that you will find out that cholesterol in itself is less of a problem and calcification of the plaque leads to atherosclerosis. And low D levels is one of the reason of excessive calcification. You can't get enough D through strict vegan diet without supplements in countries like England (lack of sun in winter months)
Also i want to point out that low cholesterol level linked to increased mortality among geriatric population.
In fact there is a new study about on importance of sulphate of vit D and health. This form of D synthesised by our skin from cholesterol sulphate.

I can point you to all these articles if you are interested.

OP this is not a good choice for a teen with ED's. Please talk to her counsellor, or whoever supports you.
People here mean well but are pushing their diet choices and missing the fact your daughter has ED's. Thats the issue.

Thank you Jelli. The thread has gone a bit off track...... I really don't feel as if I should let her - I'm agreeing more with dh now.

www.researchgate.net/publication/299494206_Positive_Selection_on_a_Regulatory_Insertion-Deletion_Polymorphism_in_FADS2_Influences_Apparent_Endogenous_Synthesis_of_Arachidonic_Acid?ev=prf_pub

Link to the actual study results

I completely understand your reservations with her history, and I know every case is different. Researching facts and information before broaching this kind of thing to family gets suggested a lot among vegans. A lot of us get negative responses ranging from angry or annoyed through to concerned, having that information on hand makes it easier. Maybe she knew you would worry (especially with her history) and wanted to reassure you she was taking it seriously and could be healthy?

Suggesting a meal plan at first which you work on together so you can ensure she gets what she needs could be an option. Definitely get a decent B12 supplement for her, deficiency in that isn't a vegan exclusive thing but I wouldn't rely just on fortified foods.

I believe Viva are still offering information packs on going vegan for free and they do handy charts of where to get what nutrients, the Vegan Society also has a lot of online resources and they've always been happy to help with questions in the past. VS should be able to point you to more specific resources or people who can help if they can't.

Prostolos13, as I thought that article is crap. Found the research and it does not support the headline. The study compared 200 people in India and America and suggests a gene mutation 1000000 years ago in India left them more vulnerable to diet high in Arachidonic acid. America produces oil-seeds with higher high oleic varieties and therefore isn't as vulnerable to low level inflammation.

So unless your DC is descended from generations of Indian's then being a vegetarian puts her at no greater risk, and even if it did the problem is with which oils are used in mass produced foods not in being vegetarian/vegan.

Secondly if you only ate foods that had zero health risks then you would have starved to death years ago because almost every food is in the news as a super food one day and a cancer causing food the next.

who cares about fatty acid synthesis, when tomorrow you could get hit by a bus? Or in OP's case, her DD could starve to death next month :(.

After purely reading your introduction, huge red flags were raised immediately as this is a common way that ED's become more 'active' again ... by restricting diet/type of foods eaten in a more 'acceptable' manner to society? It is also another way to 'obsess' about food ... by sourcing vegan recipes/ingredients ... all 'under the cover' of 'research' into veganism? It is no coincidence that ED inpatient units will not allow inpatients to follow vegan diets ...

I would be very, very concerned indeed, especially as your daughter has been clearly unwell (with multiple types of ED's) and is seen as still in need of specialist mental health treatment? Therefore not yet in 'concrete recovery' and entering the most challenging of her teenage years (schooling/exams/puberty/social situations/managing greater independence)?

I feel this is an entirely different scenario from above posters who are following balanced vegan diets (who have no history of ED's and therefore would have no element of 'drive' from this illness). Could you encourage your daughter to adhere to her environmental/animal cruelty concerns in ways that do not involve food (e.g. recycling/upcycling/considered choices of clothing, footwear and beauty products)?

I speak with personal experience ... and have seen people I have known who have been in solid recovery for many years (including myself) slip so quickly with triggers just as this ... ED's are so manipualative without even the sufferer or their family realising that the ED has 'morphed' once again ... yet so incredibly powerful in all the guises in which it disguises itself ...

Please consider very, very seriously ... ED's can maim lives for decades ... and worse ...

Did move off the main subject... sorry!

I think you should ask the people treating her life threatening illness, rather than a bunch of randoms off the internet.
Very odd.
Do you struggle to follow the advice from CAMHs generally?

ED inpatient units will not allow inpatients to follow vegan diets

Just looked up the NHS Eating Disorders Service, Outpatient, Day Care, Inpatient and Step up. It clearly states ...

"We cater for the needs of vegetarians, vegans, people with special food requirements for religious and cultural reasons and special medical diets."

It would seem to me that veganism could be a route back to an eating disorder but just as likely by forcing them to eat foods they dont want to is just as like to cause a problem.

because almost every food is in the news as a super food one day and a cancer causing food the next.

That why it is best to have a normal balanced diet, eat foods from nature and stop following all these fashionable diets.

Vegan junk food is shot unless she is a really good cook op and you can afford the extra vitamins Ect then I would say the compermise is vegtrain not vegan

eat foods from nature and stop following all these fashionable diets

seriously, factory farmed animals pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones is natural? And a plant based diet is a fad? wft?

My 14yo DSD went vegan for a few months earlier this year. Researched/put forward her case with real knowledge and enthusiasm. Her parents agreed to her trying veganism as long as she took supplements and agreed to eat a balanced diet.

Despite DSD'd assurances she ended up eating mainly pasta and risotto based meals and lots of snacks such as crisps, Oreos and skittles and kept forgetting to take her supplements. She started losing loads of hair after about 8 weeks and this combined with getting mightily fed up with the same old meals meant she gave up after 3 months. (I understand there's a broad range of vegan food but DSD doesn't eat nuts/pulses/tofu or much veg).

Not saying your DD would be the same but you might need to micro manage her diet for a bit because aside from being a potential cover up for an ED once the novelty wears off she might end up defaulting to unbalanced meals lacking in protein or calories (btw DSD's hair is back to normal now).