'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

[BravoHopeful]

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

I haven't heard anyone say women make false allegations of rape often. Never heard it said. Ever.

Really? It is rife on social media. Generally on any news article relating to a rape allegation on Facebook or Twitter, people are falling over themselves to comment on how the victim wasn't really raped and is obviously is 'doing it for the money' or they might have just 'had a one night stand and regretted it the next day'.

I never see this type of comment when it comes to a mugging or theft.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that a deliberate rapist doesn't know what he's doing. I'm talking about the 90+% (hopefully) of men who do not plan on raping but who are nevertheless not au fait with the ins and outs of what the feminist lobby are insisting any decent man would do. They know there's a lot of anger and it's directed at them. Even on a thread in mumsnet, it's very hard to get a clear consensus about what constitutes getting consent because many strident posters insist that you 'just know' if you're a decent bloke.

I've described exactly what would be expected in terms of obtaining consent on a drunken ONS to my DH and he simply didn't realise this was expected. The checking beforehand exactly how tipsy the person was before asking if they wanted to go ahead (how?) the never assuming the other person is consenting without a verbal go-ahead regardless of what they're doing - he simply didn't know. I don't for one minute think that makes him a predator. But as much as someone like my DH is 'on board' with it all as soon as it's made clear, it does make him recoil at the rules he didn't know about and what it could have meant - which is a basic lack of knowledge breeding fear.

My facebook friends must be different to yours decay -- mostly I'm seeing articles about Syria...

They are not friends these are articles posted by the usual news outlets that the general public are then able to comment on.

I have seen plenty of stuff posted about Syria/Syrian Refugees too

I was a juror on a rape case earlier this year. I can't go into too much detail, but it was a lot more complicated than we initially thought and wasn't convicted as there was too much ambiguity. However I felt awful for the way the defence attacked the poor girl, dragging up other stuff from her past, insinuating that she'd just got wasted and did something she regretted the next day.
We need to empower girls to be able to say no and not allow this to happen, I certainly wish I had been more assertive about this when I was a teenager, especially regarding asking guys to use protection.

I haven't heard anyone say women make false allegations of rape often. Never heard it said. Ever.

You don't get out much, do you?

I'm talking about the 90+% (hopefully) of men who do not plan on raping but who are nevertheless not au fait with the ins and outs of what the feminist lobby are insisting any decent man would do

Sorry have I read that wrong or are you actually suggesting 9/10 rapists aren't really rapists but technically are because feminists say so?

And if your DH didnt know that, even with a ONS, he had to obtain consent, then he really should or be having ONS. Why do people treat men like they are some stupid species so obsessed with their dicks they can't stop for a minute to make sure their partner is up for it too?

Fuck me we really haven't come very far have we? Can people for one minute just accept that the onus to not be raped is not on women?

No, reasonable belief in consent is not there (IMO) to protect men from women lying. It's there to provide for the possibility that the woman's behaviour did not necessarily indicate she didn't want to go ahead. I think this can happen. I know it can happen. However, I also know that there are many reasons why women who are being raped may not give an indication that this is what is happening. Case by case basis.

We need to empower girls to be able to say no and not allow this to happen

Yeah, because we all know rape only happens because girls let it.

No, reasonable belief in consent is not there (IMO) to protect men from women lying

Reasonable belief in consent can be used as a defence but it does not mean rape didn't happen

pinky Yes, you got that wrong.

I completely disagree with your hasty and patronising assumptions about my DH. It's not a matter of not bothering to stop for a little chat. It's not (in your language) fucking knowing it would be fucking expected to stop and fucking have a little chat while fucking assessing her mental state like she's fucking 18.

I'm talking about the 90+% (hopefully) of men who do not plan on raping but who are nevertheless not au fait with the ins and outs of what the feminist lobby are insisting any decent man would do.

Don't make this about 'the feminist lobby' being a pain in the arse or something. You are making it sound like women everywhere are reporting men for not filling out a form of consent before intercourse which you know is not the case. That nasty feminists up and down the country are spreading their legs just to see if men pass their test or something. Lots of people on this thread have said that they have been both raped and have had consensual sex (sometimes even consensual regret sex) and that there is a clear difference between the two.

Don't be so disingenuous.

Jacket so having the police examine you, question you and all your friends in detail, having barristers stand up in court and grill you about precisely what happened and potentially also rake over your sexual history is preferable to being embarrassed or judged for some women?
Do you think this is something that could conceivably happen or something that actually does happen?
Why do you think that in the face of studies into false allegations?

Reasonable belief in consent can be used as a defence but it does not mean rape didn't happen

So how did the rape happen then? Is every man using that defence lying?

Reasonable belief in consent can be used as a defence
Obviously it can be used. What point are you making - that it can be used as a valid defence but the sex still have been non-consensual? I don't get it.

Rape myths. Rape myths everywhere.

I agree with Woman why is it up to females to stop their rape happening? We don't need to educate women anything, we need to educate men not to rape and not accept the concept of some wide-eyed "well I didn't know she had to say yes" bloke being an OK thing

a virgin I don't read the comments sections of trashy papers (or trashy papers really) and I don't have friends who would say that. But I get out plenty, thanks. Not sure about the company you're keeping though.

slender my point is that a man saying "well I thought she consented" (in a rape allegation) doesn't mean she gave consent, ergo doesn't mean he didn't rape her. It's then for a court to decide how much weight that belief holds vs how much weight the female believing she was raped holds. Or does saying those words mean it's an open and shut case?

The give this a read slender from rape crisis Scotland about false allegation perceptions. We ain't making it up

www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/campaigns-projects/false-allegations/

It's there to provide for the possibility that the woman's behaviour did not necessarily indicate she didn't want to go ahead. I think this can happen. I know it can happen. However, I also know that there are many reasons why women who are being raped may not give an indication that this is what is happening. Case by case basis.

However the upshot of that piece of legislation is men being cleared on "reasonable belief" because it's almost impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he didn't have a reasonable belief.
It's a bonkers clause, put in with good intentions I'm sure, that penalises women.
Because not only does a woman have to give out "mixed messages" the next day she has to report the rape and many women don't do that, even in the most clear cut cases of rape.

I don't understand why some people are making out that consent is this mysteriously difficult criteria made up by feminists to catch men out? It isn't, it really really isn't.

jacketpotayto have you ever reported rape and gone through the process it involves? Do you understand that it doesn't just involve standing up in court and saying 'yeah he raped me'?

Quite Delete I've never met a man who was taken by surprise when told he has to obtain consent. What a bizarre thing to suggest!

I don't think jacket has the faintest idea to be honest.

It's not up to women to stop rape happening!

But saying 'no, I don't want to have sex' if you don't want to have sex would be a positive thing for girls to get into a habit of doing. There are men who would not want to think of themselves raping someone but who nevertheless not want to give someone too many opportunities to think twice about it. Men who rely on the 'heat of the moment' to get laid and have spent the evening trying, like some sort of magician, to get a woman to the point where having sex with them will seem like a splendid idea. Of course it's coercive and of course that is their issue. But saying 'fuck off to such a person is a much better message than 'It's getting a bit late.'

Being able to do something about your own safety doesn't diminish anyone else's responsibility for their choices, dilute the significance of sexual assault crime or say anything about the choices a victim has made.