'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

[BravoHopeful]

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

"Enthusiastic consent is literally nothing to do with the way you have sex. It's too do with ensuring that no matter what kind of sex (loud swinging from the rafters sex or quiet reserved missionary position sex or role playing kinky sex or anything and everything else you could be doing) you are having, the other person enthusiastically consents to having it with you. That's all."

Again, I disagree. The examples given are always of a certain type of confident behaviour e.g. the woman stripping the man and not just the man stripping the woman, the woman being very active.

Those are examples of how to identify enthusiastic consent through non-verbal means, but they aren't the only ways establishing consent and it's not been said that they are essential.

Asking is fine, and it's quite possible to be keen but nervous / shy.

So I ready the start of this thread a few days ago and have been thinking about a past experience of mine. I have talked about it before with my a friend as an example of 'being taken advantage of' but not rape.

I was around 20 and out with some friends, one being a relatively new male friend. I was quite drunk went to leave and get a taxi. Was folllwed out of club and male friend said why do you walk to my house (very close) and I will ring you one from there? Said no but was convinced to go. Get to his house and he dint ring a taxi, I asked him to several times (I was hammered). He came on to me, tried to kiss me I may even have kissed him back. I asked to go home again. Once again he said he would phone me one in a minute. He really full on kissed me, suggested we have sex but I said no, asked him to ring a taxi again. So this went on a bit and eventually we did have sex. I wasn't 'forced' so I did consent in the end. Confusingly (it's a bit blurred) I think I enjoyed it in the end . I never considered that I was raped but i certainly thought he was an arsehole and we were no longer friends after that.

Urgh, I am 32 now and still mad with myself for getting into that position but I thought he was a friend.

You were put in a position where saying no to him was not an option. You were vulnerable and unable to extricate yourself safely unless you gave in. Whatever you want to call it (and you can define your experience however you like), that's not true consent. Consent is only possible when someone isn't under duress, and that wasn't the case here.

The crux of it for me is, did he know you didn't want to have sex with him? And the answer is yes. You made it clear every time you said no and that you wanted a taxi. He deliberately ignored your boundaries and wishes from the moment he 'convinced' you to walk with him.

Isolating their victim and then not letting the victim leave until they've had sex is a common rapist's tactic. It's not an accident when they do this, it's part of the plan, part of their modus operandi.

I hope itsmine that you have reported those pm's . That is really not on

I thought he got off because of an enthusiastic instruction the woman gave him.

Obviously I know some things were said in court that wont have been reported, but do we even know if he was asked exactly how he knew she was saying it to him? Given that he walked into a dark room, she barely reacted when he walked in (which either means she is so slutty she just wouldn't care or she was so drunk she didn't really realise - absolutely no evidence heard to suggest the first, lots of evidence heard to suggest the second) and he basically 'took over' from his mate?

How could he possibly know for sure she wanted him to fuck her harder? He never even spoke to her! That's the crux though isn't it - consent for one man means consent for any man who lets himself into the room apparently.

Womenwith- thank you for your response. Made me cry

The legal definition of rape has changed. For those two posters AristotlesTrousers and thatsnotmyusername - I believe they fall under the legal definition. The 'social' definition is still playing catch up to what is legal.

I think many people are still hanging in to the 'social' definition.

Years ago I was the victim of what now would emphatically be called sexual assault. In public, in broad daylight with people watching. Then it was 'just a laugh'.

Times have changed. Otherwise the 'grey areas' wouldn't be debated.

Totally agree about the resistance to consent education. I remember that dick head holding up that sign and there were lots of men agreeing with him.

Lots of wide eyed faux hurt, 'not all men', 'dont tar us all with the same brush' going on.

Because in society's mind it is still women's responsibilty to ensure they don't get raped.

"How could he possibly know for sure she wanted him to fuck her harder? He never even spoke to her! "

He claims that she said so.

So gwen
Say you had consensual sex with a couple of boyfriends, in your preferred style.
And then one day you invited a male friend to your house for coffee and he raped you, you said no and you froze.
You reported it and the rapist claimed you said yes.
And then it became admissable in court (because its a similar pattern) that you don't move during sex or speak.
So your rapist got off and your sex life got aired in public and you got told you were "crying rape".
All of this commonly happens. What should you have done to prevent it?

He claims that she said so.

Yes, but where did he say that he knew for sure that she was saying it to him and not to CM?

It was me who suggested slender had NC
And it wasn't on the basis of different views. Turn of phrase and some odd views plus timing of prolific posters leaving/joining the thread were what made me think. But I was wrong so I apologise for that.
I am finding it hard how many people think:

1. men don't/can't understand consent because there are grey areas
2. lots of women aren't assertive so men need to assume if they want sex and it's not surprising they get it wrong sometimes
3. some women are prickteases and fickle, changing their mind about sex
4. feminists are their own worst enemies by being strident

These are all quite unusual views I don't often encounter Irl (apart from the feminist one) but yet as soon as a rape thread starts there appears to be lots of poysters holding these opinions

This from the CPS :
“Consent to sexual activity is not a grey area - in law it is clearly defined and must be given fully and freely.

“It is not a crime to drink, but it is a crime for a rapist to target someone who is no longer capable of consenting to sex though drink.

“These tools take us well beyond the old saying 'no means no' - it is now well established that many rape victims freeze rather than fight as a protective and coping mechanism.

“We want police and prosecutors to make sure they ask in every case where consent is the issue - how did the suspect know the complainant was saying yes and doing so freely and knowingly?”

There was an interesting article on ITV 'On Assignment' last night about equality. Apparently, Iceland is the most equal nation and they have a great education programme starting with nursery children. Why is Iceland the best place in the world to be a woman?

(which either means she is so slutty she just wouldn't care or she was so drunk she didn't really realise - absolutely no evidence heard to suggest the first

We can all make up our own narratives of what happened. I have read that the woman bumped into CM on the street and CCTV footage shows that they only spoke for a very short period of time (in fact I remember the term "seconds" being reported but not sure how accurate this this), Still, if someone is willing to go off an have sex with someone they just bumped into in the street relatively moments before, it is not that further a leap to think she'd agree to a new man also in very short order. Or maybe the fact that she agreed so quickly to CM is just evidence that she was not mentally firing on all cylinders due to the drink. And this is the kind of problem I have. People can just create their own narratives based on what they think it is likely how someone would act or think.

Completely agree with its post at 9.06

Which is pretty much what everyone is agreeing with

And for what it's worth 'fuck me harder' does not imply consent, because by that time you're already fucking her.

Yes, just make consent classes compulsory education. Not only would this ensure that everyone gets to hear all about consent, but it would.also change the perception of 'what a rapist looks like' - that rapists aren't men in trench coats waiting in the bushes with a knife. It would normalise consent, because at the moment it seems there are so many 'grey areas' if you, oooops, 'accidentally overstep the mark' it doesn't matter because no one really knows quite what consent means anyway.

sex education classes They are called Relationship classes now, but theres still a long way to go.

Still, if someone is willing to go off an have sex with someone they just bumped into in the street relatively moments before, it is not that further a leap to think she'd agree to a new man also in very short order.

Another rape myth again, I'm afraid.