DH being U about baby in restaurant?

[StripedSwad]

We are on holiday with 3 month BF baby. There's a fancy restaurant on site which we are booked in to

we have his mother with us, who will babysit, but she would need to bring baby down to us if he needs to be fed. Restaurant has said no to this as is adults only.

DH thinks this is terrible and wants to complain as baby will only be down a short while and purely for feeding, whereas I think it's just one of those things you accept with a baby and we will just have to eat elsewhere. So who is right?

If you can't have kids and don't want your nose rubbed into it, tough there are no places for you you don't count

If you can't eat gluten and don't want your nose rubbed into it, then restaurants should all be closed down. It's not fair.

If you can't drive because your eyesight is poor then nobody should be allowed to have a car. Why should you have your nose rubbed into your inability to drive?

If you can't have children and you feel so upset about it that you can't spend time in a place where there are children then you need professional help.

Misshelena, you can't see how the 'made your bed...' statement constitutes a solid reason to discriminate against mothers in the workplace, to refuse to contemplate paid maternity leave of more than six weeks? You are indeed very privileged to have had paid mat leave, that lasted over six weeks.

What a pity you can't see how the anti-child and anti-women, exclusionary attitude carries over to hostile policies in the workplace too. Maybe your privilege has blinded you to the reality so many women face.

To those incredulous that children can be taught to behave from an early age - it's not really my responsibility if others feel badly about themselves when their children do not.
To whoever it was that suggested I would use a restaurant as a classroom - no, my DCs were taught to behave at home first, with outings to restaurants and other places in due course. Perhaps your experience of setting high expectations for your children is limited?

JayisforJessica - it seems to me that in your head, no matter how well behaved a baby or child may be, having one in a restaurant with you gets in the way of impressing people with your sophistication .

Maybe your privilege has blinded you to the reality so many women

What? Wanting to eat in a child free restaurant. Talk about stretching a point.

If you can't have children and you feel so upset about it that you can't spend time in a place where there are children then you need professional help.

How uncompassionate and smug can you get.

Children shouldn't be there, it is a child free restaurant.

Math, so in a nutshell, are you saying that children of all ages, whether breastfed (therefore with mother), toddler, etc should be allowed in all restaurants/public places etc?

To those incredulous that children can be taught to behave from an early age - it's not really my responsibility if others feel badly about themselves when their children do not.....Perhaps your experience of setting high expectations for your children is limited?

We can't all be the perfect parents that you so obviously think you are. Unfortunately DS failed to live up to whatever high expectations that I might have set. But don't worry; honestly, I am not holding you responsible at all. And, relax, I don't feel bad about it either. Children behaving like children - whatever next!

piglet
i'd say math should see prodessional help but then i'm not so nasty
Clearly all parents have all gone wrong here, as math has it!
She has taught her kids to behave from an early age, so all parents who don't have kids who are that way are wrong!
You're bad parents as math has managed it!
Special needs? Nope you're doing something wrong
Math is anti everything except what she wants and considers right.
I always know it's going to be a ridiculous thread when math is on it.
Never known anyone quite so smug in all my life.

wonder if her kids want a break from her

Another bingo - Special needs. Well done, Kali.

This thread does not disappoint.

So much compassion here for everyone except a breastfeeding mother who might like to bring her baby for an evening out so that she could, you know, feed her baby. Such a simple, straightforward thing to do, but so enraging to those determined to be 'adult' or 'human', who end up coming across as very insecure in their adulthood, and pretty inhumane.

So much compassion here for everyone except a breastfeeding mother who might like to bring her baby for an evening out so that she could, you know, feed her baby.

If it was the only place that they could go then there would be plenty of compassion. It wouldn't have been though.

If a restaurant chooses to not allow under 18s (which means they don't have to provide children menus, high chairs, or even spaces for prams) then that is their right. If you don't agree (and I think you must be one of the few in the world who doesn't....) then don't given them your business.

That poor, put upon breastfeeding mother. Don't you heartless lot understand? This is an all or nothing proposition! Either she gets to bring baby where baby is specifically prohibited, or she AND baby have no choice but to stand out in the cold, the rain and the snow, doing their best little match girl impressions, because of course there are no other restaurants on the planet. Just this one, in a post apocalyptic sea of nothingness, of no other food or dining options anywhere. Mass starvation is descending upon the earth. She must bring her baby inside this restaurant, lest they both starve to death!!

In case none of this was clear, I'm being heavily sarcastic. In fact, if my eyes rolled any harder, they'd fall out of my head. Math, you need to grow up and realize that the whole world doesn't have to cater to you and your preferences, any more than it has to cater to ours. If we were rampaging saying no children in any restaurant ever, you might have a point. But we're not, so you don't.

Math are your five children frustrated with you spending so much time ranting at strangers on the internet?

You obviously lack a compassion gene somewhere - comparing the emotional pain of not being able to conceiveve as akin to needing glasses or being gluten free - yet being so concerned at the op not being able to go to one place to eat is surely confused priorities

You're assuming she has 5 children. I think she's a budding author practising her rhetorical speaking skills (and should give up because they're shit)

So much compassion here for everyone except a breastfeeding mother who might like to bring her baby for an evening out so that she could, you know, feed her baby.

Don't go to a child free restaurant, which openly advertises as such, then. HTH.

I do indeed have five children, now aged 15 to 26.

Loving the PA, the sarcasm, the nimbyism, the claim of entitlement to a personal bubble.

If a restaurant chooses to not allow under 18s (which means they don't have to provide children menus, high chairs, or even spaces for prams) then that is their right. If you don't agree (and I think you must be one of the few in the world who doesn't....) then don't given them your business.
How about trying to see that effectively banning breastfeeding in restaurants by banning babies sets women back many decades? Do you know how long and hard women fought for the right to breastfeed in public?

And how about that disgusting phrase 'child free' that is thrown about so casually here? The implication of it being that there is some sort of liberation involved.

So because I am child-free I am "disgusting"?

Math, I managed to bring my son up when it was normal for children to be more "seen and not heard". We managed quite well thank you, I never felt oppressed or put out or offended. And neither did my son. I accepted even back then that I couldn't always have my own way in life. Or take away other people's choices. It did us no harm and we had a very nice time! That was how it was, I couldn't have cared less because it wasn't a problem.It hasn't played on my mind all these years. I haven't woken up wringing my hands in disgust about the injustice of it all . Yes things have moved on tenfold since then, which is good. But how much more will it take to satisfy you? being a mother does not trump everybody else's wants and rights. How dare you assume that you and your children are more important. It's called choice and you have no right to tell me I can't make my own choices because you might like to take your children with you to an adults only place.mothers/breastfeeding and children are allowed in most places now, so why isn't that acceptable? I'm glad I don't know you in real life, because I wouldn't be able to hold a two sided conversation with you. You are not allowing me to have my own opinion. You are telling me I am wrong and whooping up ridiculous undercurrents behind everyday phrases that we use, such as "child-free". This is how it is: if I choose to go out of an evening to a child-free restaurant, I do not expect children there. I usually go out to family friendly places, but if on the odd occasion I might want something different, then I will go to an adults only. Why is that so hard for you to accept? Why am I not allowed that choice in your eyes? Seriously, why would that personally offend you?

the claim of entitlement to a personal bubble.

No that would be insisting on taking a child to an adult only restaurant. Entitled to the max.

Just out of interest( as this thread has taken a nasty turn), can't you buy a bottle to express milk into. Am assuming you aren't in the Gobi desert, so they should have shops..

Loving the PA, the sarcasm, the nimbyism, the claim of entitlement to a personal bubble.

We're not loving your entitlement, so could you go away?

How about trying to see that effectively banning breastfeeding in restaurants by banning babies sets women back many decades? Do you know how long and hard women fought for the right to breastfeed in public?

Ok, I'll bite - let's run with that.

Anywhere that children are prohibited from being (except a place where a woman works) is prohibiting them from breastfeeding and is therefore discriminatory against all women.

Where are children prohibited from? Certainly, the leisure industry is guilty - nightclubs, theatres, cinemas, wine bars, hotels etc.

So, there needs to be a wholesale change in that industry and leisure businesses must open their doors to children. That will significantly reduce the market, as less tolerant customers choose not to spend their leisure time in a child friendly venue. That in turn will reduce choice for those customers, with and without DCs, who are willing to accommodate the presence of children during their leisure time.

The theme park industry would change as they currently discriminate against breastfeeding mothers on their 'adult only' rides. All three parks would therefore be entirely child friendly and would lose the lucrative hen/stag-market.

Vaping lounges would have to allow children in so that breastfeeding mums are not discriminated against.

Fitness centres and swimming pools would have to ensure all sessions were open to children.

There is a large and lucrative market currently meeting the needs of those individuals who do not want to spend leisure time with DCs.
If it became illegal to exclude children, many of those people would sacrifice their leisure time rather than spend that time in a space where there are DCs.

I acknowledge that to you, those people are dispicable. But there are many of them - which indicates it is not a abberation of a few in society, but a common feeling amongst many.

Are you so confident that everyone else is wrong and you are right? Or is it possible that neither position is wrong, and that with a diverse range of establishments, everyone can have their needs met?

...need professional help... ???

What an utterly nasty thing to say!

D'you know - when my fertility was shot to pieces and I was told I would never have a much wanted child I did receive professional help, but only after a 6 month wait and a further 12 months of counselling. What the fuck was I supposed to do while waiting for that magical professional cure???

What a nasty, selfish, self-centred, egotistical, mean, ............ thing to say.

It took me ages to work out why you and dh had your baby on hol but also the baby's mum who was there to babysit. Doh.

I think you're right. There's a difference between restaurants being funny with bf women and just being adult only. I'd try to step out if needed or guess you can go elsewhere

Do you know, I can't believe I've allowed myself to become embroiled in this ridiculous argument. I'm bowing out. Math, you have achieved what you wanted by provoking everyone into wasting their time arguing the toss with you. If you are for real, which I am beginning to doubt, then I hope you somehow manage to find a more calm and happy life, because you certainly come across as a very unhappy and troubled woman.

Bingo? I asked about special needs as math claimed she has taught all her kids from babies how to behave so it must be possible
Not all children are the same.

milk i'm sorry you had a tough time and that you had to encounter this poster. Not everybody is like this!

That will significantly reduce the market, as less tolerant customers choose not to spend their leisure time in a child friendly venue.

'Less tolerant' isn't really the right term there.
I think anti-child is far more appropriate.

What you are saying in your post is that there's money to be made from pandering to the anti-child brigade and breastfeeding mothers would ruin a business model.

Delightful arrangement of priorities there.

If it became illegal to exclude children, many of those people would sacrifice their leisure time rather than spend that time in a space where there are DCs.
This is their loss. Most people (Kali will no doubt find some exceptions) find their lives are much happier when they unclench.

...is it possible that neither position is wrong, and that with a diverse range of establishments, everyone can have their needs met?
It is never right to exclude breastfeeding women, either overtly or incidentally because babies are not permitted into an establishment. Breastfeeding is legal and never inappropriate, reasonable health and safety considerations aside.

Wrt professional help - I had professional help after three miscarriages, and it helped enormously. Since I was in the US I had to pay in full for the services I received, thanks to the vagaries of health insurance.
My positive experience of therapy may be atypical. Your experience may be atypical.
But the world doesn't stop spinning because there are people suffering loss or grief.