To report this nurse?

[TheDonOfWinterville]

Went to visit elderly relative in hospital this afternoon and on the same ward another elderly lady was in bed. She rang her buzzer and I heard one of the care assistants say to a colleague "ignore it, she's been doing it all day, attention seeking" 😳 So the buzzer was ringing for another 10 minutes or so. Eventually the care assistant came and snapped "what do you want this time becAuse we're busy". The lady replied that she needed to make a call but couldn't reach her phone so the caret passed her her phone and walked out. A while later the lady pressed her buzzer again and a nurse came in and said "is it important because we're very busy" 😲 The lady said something about wanting her socks putting on which the nurse begrudgingly did for her. Just before we left the lady pressed her buzzer and the first carer came charging back in, turned off the buzzer, snapped "sorry, we're busy now" and walked out!!!!
So anyway as I left I spoke to the qualified nurse and said I felt the lady had been treated unfairly and it worries me that my relative may be reluctant to ask for her if this is the way patients are treated so the nurse sAid "I'm sorry but when you have buzzers going off in every room, the phone ringing and patients in genuine need of assistance it does get irritating when someone presses their buzzer every 5 minutes just to ask you to pick up bits of tissue or tell you that their coffee is cold. " she went on to hand me a pals leaflet and told me to complain about the lack of staff!! Aibu to actually complain about the staff that WERE on duty?

putputput I wouldn't call you heartless and think you are perfectly reasonable to make people wait if their need is not urgent - that's just common sense. However this lady was spoken to aggressively and ultimately completely ignored.

"...there is NO excuse for ignoring buzzers. None."

So, tonsiltennis, should a nurse leave a patient who is in cardiac arrest, or haemorrhaging, or leave the bedside of a dying patient, to answer a buzzer and hand someone their phone? What about if they are in the middle of admitting a patient, doing the drug round, changing an IVI bag, or doing observations (pulse, blood pressure, respirations, temperature) on a patient just back from Theatre?

When wards are understaffed, the staff may well have to make hard decisions about prioritising what they do for which patient - and this is not the staff's fault - it is the fault of those who under-resource our NHS.

As a nurse who bends over backwards to be nice and kind despite the often completely unreasonable demands by our patients and their families I agree chelseafan rudeness is unacceptable. Unfortunately I am also very aware that in many wards particularly adult wards with a high number of elderly who often require lots of care and help that nurses/HCAs have gone way beyond breaking point many are completely burnt out and sadly this is reflected in the way the address patients.

It is sad that things like this happen. In an ideal world, there would be more staff and patients would have their every want taken care of. It scares me that conditions on wards are now so stretched.

However, having spent some time on elderly wards, there are patients who do ring the buzzer every 5 minutes. Day and night. Sometimes it can be an effect of dementia, I think. I can understand how, in a busy place where there are patients with far more serious needs that require urgent attention, it can become extremely wearing for staff. I would take some heart from the fact that they are following up on the woman's calls and checking that she is OK each time.

None of that excuses rudeness, however.

there is never an excuse for ignoring a buzzer

I don't think you quite understand an emergency situation do you that can arise on s ward.

I was a care worker and extremely overworked.

Yet magically, even after being 'buzzed' multiple times in a row I still managed to be civil.

These are vulnerable, often elderly patients.

I had to go in there to turn the buzzer off anyway. A bit of kindness and consideration was hardly too much to ask for someone who would probably only speak to me that day.

Some people just like to use 'tired' and 'overworked' as an excuse to be a dick.

I'd say the patient could well have been behaving like this because it was visiting time and she was doing it for your benefit.
You have only seen a snapshot of the interactions here which may have been ongoing for weeks. Do you remember being judged by passer-by for remonstrating with your toddler when out and about and feeling hard done by because you were judged in a snapshot of what had been going on that day between you and your child? This could be similar for all you know.
Also, I work in hospitals and can honestly say I have never seen staff change or moderate their behaviour because visitors were there. The nurse was telling you they can't cope and asking you to help by highlighting their difficulty in coping by complaining to PALS. You should probably do so.
Finally, nurses are not maids. They have to prioritise their work based on clinical and safety needs and sometimes this looks uncaring but it is the way it has to be.

I think the nurse dealt with everything perfectly appropriately to be honest.

Some elderly people can be very demanding!

But if no one complains because the nurses are already under so much pressure, will it not then be considered that the system is working and doesn't need to be improved? Which means that there will be no need to change a system that doesnt work nor for the nurses, nor for the patients??

TBH, is putting a complain to PALS about not enough staff not the same than putting a complain for the way pxs are treated?
If a proper investigation was done, then it should have come as obvious that the issue with the px is not enugh staff or too uch pressure on them etc...
If the reality is that, whatebver the situation, the newer will always be to put more pressure on staff anyway, then complaining to PALS about not enough staff will just result in more pressure onto the nurses to do morre anyway....

But until people complain in masses and shout that the way pxs are treated in NOT acceptable, then it will just carry on....

STDG sadly I've come to realise than many patients and there relatives just don't seem to realise that we do have to prioritise things, I frequently have to work out very complicated drug calculations, which we do in a room where we cannot be accessed by patients and relatives so as to avoid disturbance but despite a huge notice on the door their relatives but still they knock on the door asking for a different sandwich filling to be changed or clean sheets. Or I'm often am caring for critically ill child awaiting transfer in full sight of others on the ward and a relatives of another child ask my to make a milk shake for their child. I could go on. We're lucky that we do all our calculations behind a locked door on many general adult wards they aren't so lucky. Tabards etc saying do not disturb are frequently ignored.

The first buzzer was ignored for 10 minutes because the care assistant decided the patient was an attention seeker.

The second and third buzzers were answered in an intimidating and aggressive manner with a staff "begrudgingly" doing their job.

The last buzzer was snatched away from the patient without the staff even checking to see what the patient was buzzing for before she stomped off.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that any nhs staff would think this is in any way acceptable. It falls way way below the standard of respect and care that is expected.

Hang on the nurse said 'is it important because we are busy' which is reasonable.

Scared most trusts know they do not have enough staff, there are simply not enough to go round there are vacancies everywhere. You can complain all you like you just can't magic up staff from no where.
Even the premium agencies paying three times what the NHS pays cant fill these vacancies.

I am an HCA and I have had patients who ring their bells every few seconds for silly demands that they could do themselves or could wait.

I often have 18 plus patients to look after myself. The nurses are busy with paper work, medication and other important things and I'm the only one answering the bells, taking people to the toilet, turning them, checking their skin, doing the obs, the care rounds, the comforting. A lot of the time I have 6 bells going, 4 patients needing a toilet and I can't go answer the patient who is ringing constantly and asking me to do things like pass her a magazine..

So darn right it gets irritating when a patient is constantly ringing their bell and you know their request is low down on the list of importance in a busy moment.

I will go to the bell when I can and if the request is something little that can wait I will tell them it will have to wait. If they do it over and over when I've told them I'm busy and will get to them as soon as I can I'm going to get irritated, especially if they know what they are doing and treating me like a personal servant.

Telling the patient that they are sorry but they are busy right now is fine.

I am usually close by to a patient like that and can see if it is urgent. I also know if they are capable of taking themselves to the toilet, and IME the constant buzzer ringers often are (dementia excluded) if they aren't mobile and safe I'm going to answer the buzzer ASAP like I would anyone.

If others think they can do a better job come do it, work in an understaffed ward with very ill patients and see if you can do better.

It's a poor attitude and it's not acceptable.

I take it as read that the staff are overstretched and exhausted. Nursing levels are not high enough to meet the needs of the patients, not as an occasional crisis, but all the time.

But. Patients have a right to be treated with dignity and this vignette illustrates that this lady, possibly with dementia, probably lonely and almost certainly lost and out of control in the ward environment, isn't receiving acceptable care.

I would contact PALS, trying to be constructive if you can. It is sadly unlikely that the level of nursing staff will change, but the lady might benefit from befriending from a volunteer service or from a rota of friends and family.

I believe the small stuff should be challenged. If not it leads to bigger problems.

This confirms why I won't ever go back to working on a ward.

I haven't worked on a ward for 3 1/2 yrs but last ward was gruelling often had patients who required 1 to 1 care but not given extra carers, and patients with dementia who would constantly press their buzzer but don't know why and/or ask for the pen, glasses, tissues etc that are on the bedside table within their reach. Whilst responding to these people you have another person who requires two carers to attend to them who has to wait, a person who is pain and needs analgesia who has to wait.

I am kind of with the nurse who handed you the pals details, she/he probably fills out incident report forms frequently about near misses due to lack of staff and is getting no where.

Yanbu to upset about the tone used that is inexcusable in my books but the reality is they are probably at breaking point.

I would ask to speak to the ward sister/matron and voice your concerns about the the attitude of the staff attending to this woman.

arab what I am thinking abut is the number of reports we have again and agaiun on how the NHS is failing mothers who are giving birth, elderly patients etc...
Until that sort of information is coming out right in the public eye, in the newspaper etc... nothing changes.
I believe this is the same forthat sort of thing. Yes the NHS is under staffed. This needs to be said loud and clear. Or rather the consequences of being short staffed need to be said loud and clear so that our politicians will finally get their acts together.
If no one complains about it, nothing will change. Why should it?

Same thing happened to me when my DH was in hospital. Elderly man with dementia was in the bed opposite and rang his buzzer/cried out for help endlessly the whole time we were there. The nurses came once or twice but to be honest there was nothing really wrong with him and no problem they could solve, he was just rambling about needing help. I understand why they ignore it after a while when they are rushed off their feet but it is heartbreaking to watch.

I have just come out of hospital, I was on ICU then ccu then a general ward. The nurses work bloody hard often in the most difficult circumstances. On my ward there was one patient who rang the bell every five minutes to go to the toilet even though she didn't need to, she was waiting for an appropriate care package. They answered her bell but of course they were frustrated.
The patient after her rang her bell to get the nurses to: move her fork to the other side of her tray, to put her bed down, and then complained it wasn't done properly, and to bring her tea at 3 AM. She spoke to the staff like absolute dirt, and if any of the nurses had been rude to her I honestly wouldn't have blamed them, I could have cheerfully have slapped her. She was a vile woman, and just for reference, she was perfectly capable of e.g walking around and doing things for herself.

Scared yes people should complain, the press should be informed, the message needs to be put out there loud and clear the NHS is collapsing primarily under the immense strain of an aging population (who are very expensive to care for both in hospitals and the community) and that demoralised nurses are over worked unhappy leaving in droves because we can't do the job we believe in. But frankly I just don't see it's going to make any difference.

BTW I am always polite to my patients. However, I understand that if someone has had someone buzzing them constantly for hours their patience might wane.

It isn't acceptable but the conditions we work in aren't acceptable.

u2 I think some people think difficult elderly people all are confused, frightened, dementia, but they are not, some are just horrible.

Patients can be demanding and have unrealistic expectations but I cannot condone rudeness and I would complain about that.

I'm a nurse in acute mental health and tolerate some incredibly challenging, demanding and rude behavior but I will always be polite to the patient and I expect the same from my colleagues.

I might go in the office, shut the door and have a grumble but I will be polite and respectful with the patients.

Sometimes it is appropriate to remind a patient what the nurse call system is there for but also how else they can ask for help if they aren't mobile. Sometimes patients press the buzzer simply because they can't get anyone's attention any other way.

Report her. Even if they have the frankly lame excuse about being too busy to provide care then it will be recorded as such.

Ex nurse here. I was absolutely desperate for patients to complain. Desperate.

We were so short staffed and on our knees most of the time. I used to go home after a shift with my back near to breaking point, hungry and dehydrated because I'd had no time to stop and take a break. Trying to get a good nights sleep knowing that you'd not given your patients anything even close to resembling a decent level of care was very very hard.

Whilst her attitude isn't great, it's sadly understandable.

Please make sure that you DO complain to PALS.