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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel cross and frustrated with mum? Money, mortgage, inheritance

322 replies

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 19:51

I've posted about this on mumsnet before, but the situation has changed a bit in the past year.

The back story: dad did equity release on parental home a few years before he died. My mum never fully understood what she was signing her name to - she didn't understand the concept of compound interest, still doesn't.

Five years on from dad's death and mum now (now 81) lives in the family home with my older sister, who raised a 150K interest only mortgage on her salary to pay off the equity release, and is servicing this fairly large mortgage while she lives at home with my mum. If she hadn't done that it is likely the bulk of the value of the house would have been consumed in a fairly short period of time, leaving my mum stuck in a detached house with a massive garden, which she would struggle to maintain on her own, but unable to leave as she wouldn't have enough money available after paying the equity release off to buy another cheaper property in the very expensive area where she is determined to see her days out.

Now here's the problem: dsis has psoriasis which has become very very bad recently, to the point that her hands and feet are almost completely raw, and she is struggling to get through every day in her very strenuous and responsible (and physically active) job. She has to sleep with plastic bags on her hands and feet, comes home every with blood leaking out of the dressings, and has to spend half an hour after work every day debriding and soaking her hands and feet before wrapping them in clingfilm. Sad This results in her barely managing to keep on top of her work and suffering from quite intense anxiety about it as a knock on. I can't see how she can continue in her job and neither can she, but if she leaves how will she service the mortgage? She is 53 and would struggle to get a job that in any other sector which would be feasible for her with her health problems. She has had this problem for years and has tried many different treatments which until recently kept it under control enough to allow her to function. In the last year however it's got really out of control.

Anyway, a family friend died earlier this year and left my mum 120K and my sister 30K, enough money to pay off the mortgage. As soon as my mum phoned me and told me about the inheritance I said 'brilliant, now you can pay the mortgage off and you can both stop worrying about your future in the house' (ie, can you afford to stay or will you have to sell and downsize if you can't pay the mortgage). DB said exactly the same, and so did my mum's best friend.

All fine. Except not, as mum has decided that she wants to use her part of the inheritance to get the (perfectly decent and functional) kitchen remodelled, go on cruises, and generally live it up, while my sister carries on servicing the mortgage.

My brother put it to my mum that my sister is really struggling with work, to which my mum's response was 'she's lucky to live here in such a lovely house, she's made her choices, now she has to deal with the consequences'.

I feel gutted and angry with my mum. My sister has grafted all her life and never complained. She has never had anyone who's 'got her back'. Her ex partner of 19 years was profoundly selfish and insisted on separate homes/finances until she left him. Then her next partner offered her the security of a home together, but turned out to be a violent abuser. He was a gambler and an alcoholic who ran through all the equity my sister had when she sold her flat to move in with him, and she ended up back in a rented property at 43 with nothing in the bank. She has never asked my parents for anything and is the most honest, sincere, principled person I know. I feel distressed that my mum can't take her needs into account, given that my sister is struggling so badly with her psoriasis. My mum's quality of life is so good for someone of her age. She has a very comfortable income, is active, is still driving, has enough of an income to eat out several times a week, go on holiday with her friends, employ a cleaner and a part-time gardener, and put money in the bank every week. She has a better social life than me and she hasn't worked full time since she was in her 20's. I could understand her wanting to live it up on her inheritance if she didn't already have a really good quality of life, hadn't already travelled the world several times over, been on a cruise, lived in beautiful homes etc. She's said that she wants to give some of the money to my db and me, but we've said firmly that we don't want it, that we want her to pay off the mortgage with it so that this stops being a worry for her and my sister.

It's like she can't compute that not paying off the mortgage means that my sister is trapped on a treadmill of full-time work which she is becoming too ill to cope with. If I try to get this point across to her she gets angry with me and closes down. Tells me to stop upsetting her, that she's old and can't deal with people upsetting her.

I feel oddly distressed about how hard-faced my mum is being. She's a loving person, but she's not behaving like a loving mother to my sister in relation to this issue. I can't see how it's going to pan out right now, and I'm worried about it causing a serious rift between us.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:28

"This is insane. They should simply downsize. Selling would release enough money to pay off the debts and buy somewhere outright that they can afford to run. £600K can buy you a very nice house"

My mum wouldn't want to live in a semi-detached property.

Her dog barks too much. Shock Quite apart from anything else.

Yes, she is VERY spoiled. So are all her friends. All well off widows with very good pensions (mostly retired senior civil servants, lecturers, ex head teachers and senior nurses). They spend their lives 'hobby shopping', squabbling with each other (they're like school girls - so bitchy), opposing any new developments in their village, complaining about immigrants and single mothers, and moaning about their ungrateful, lazy children. My mother is less right wing than most of them but she's picked up a lot of their way of thinking about the world. They really do feel hard done by. It's almost funny.

OP posts:
QuiteLikely5 · 17/10/2016 21:28

So there was no money to pay off the £150k at the end anyway?

Sounds like you have all been trying to protect your inheritance (I say that respectfully) by happily allowing your sister to pull the house back from the equity company and it has back fired.

Maybe your father kept money from your mother for a reason!

silverduck · 17/10/2016 21:30

What would happen if you said 'Mum, it's clear you know what you're doing and what you want. Dsis can't service the mortgage anymore as she needs to go part time/retire so the bank will be in touch', and then refuse to engage about it further? I just wonder if she is kicking back against choices being made for her by her children. If you stop controlling and choosing for her then she might do what you want by herself.

Did your mum support the mortgage being taken out? You haven't said, but I suspect she was happy enough with equity release, some people are.

I get that you say that you want choices for her as she gets older but she clearly has capacity to make her own choices. She's allowed to make bad ones. You didn't answer my question about inheritance. If your sister hadn't taken the mortgage you and your brother wouldn't get any inheritance from the house as it would have been eaten up by the equity release plan, so are you and your brother planning on giving any inheritance from the house to your sister? It her blood and sweat (literally) that have kept it in the family at all. Did your sister decide to take the mortgage or did all three of you think it was a good idea? In which case should all three of you be paying it? What was the plan at the end of the repayment period? There is no way I would take an interest only mortgage without an understanding of how it would be paid back, or did you plan that the house would have been sold by that point?

What's behind my questions is the whole thought that you meddled with what she was quite happy with. If she does stay in the house until she passes away the only difference from the mortgage for her was that you three kids get 800k, which she might not care about.

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:31

"Why is your sister so determined to keep your mum in her house, "she will work herself to destruction to maintain the property and keep my mum in her home"? What is your sister's motivation here?"

She loves my mum to bits and wouldn't want to leave her alone.

In fairness she also loves the house (it's very comfortable and has a beautiful garden) and the village too. It's a lovely area.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:37

" your mum support the mortgage being taken out? You haven't said, but I suspect she was happy enough with equity release, some people are."

She didn't understand the equity release.

She didn't understand that the interest on the loan would grow faster and faster, the longer the term.

She was happy with it on the understanding that she'd die soon and there would be a decent inheritance left for us. I think after my dad died she was so unhappy for such a long time that she wanted to die. 5 years on and she's actually not so unhappy now and has a good quality of life. She's now seeing that she may live into her 90's.

OP posts:
Blistory · 17/10/2016 21:49

I don't understand why the mother is getting such a hard time.

Presumably the sister got a share of the house in return for the loan which was used to repay the equity release loan ? And if the house is sold, she will receive her share the of the sale proceeds so no loss to the sister then.

You all want your mum to repay your sisters loan but what does she then do for income ? If your sister gives up work, your mum would effectively be supporting her to own part of a house mortgage free and the remainder which will then be shared between all the siblings when your mum dies.

As they things stand, your sister has an inheritance which she can use the service HER mortgage and you will all inherit when your mother passes. Quite frankly the notion that your mother shouldn't get the most out of her past few years baffles me. Your sister has her share of the house, her eventual share of the inheritance and thirty grand. And there is every possibility that her health condition could improve.

You need to move beyond the idea that your sister bailed your Mum out - she simply bought herself a share of your mums house and has put it at risk if she cannot pay her mortgage. Maybe your Mum doesn't understand why she should be exposed to any more risk.

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:50

Would add that she wasn't happy about the equity release, even without realising quite how it worked. She had an understanding that it would narrow down her options if she eventually had to downsize.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:51

"You all want your mum to repay your sisters loan but what does she then do for income"

She has a good pension and savings in the bank.

OP posts:
Homebird90 · 17/10/2016 21:55

She has a good pension and savings in the bank.

not enough to pay the interest on the mortage? She'll have to if your sister can't - unless she wants to lose her house. It's up to her.

Homebird90 · 17/10/2016 21:56

monthly interest payments, I mean. Or at least contribute to them.

Pisssssedofff · 17/10/2016 21:56

Well yes that's a good point if your sister can't pay the mother will simply have to

GiraffesAndButterflies · 17/10/2016 21:57

Can you get your mum to the bank? If you ring and say that she didn't understand the letter, and make an appointment in branch, would your mum go? So that she can understand (hopefully) that this is actually going to happen. At the moment it sounds like she's sticking her head in the sand and choosing to believe that your sister can work forever.

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:58

"Quite frankly the notion that your mother shouldn't get the most out of her past few years baffles me."

What, get the most out of her last few years going on cruises and hobby shopping while her oldest child forces herself to continue working against medical advice to service the mortgage on their home?

Fair enough.

I think if my sister simply can't carry on working and my mother would rather use her money to shop and cruise, the house may have to be sold.

Something has to give.

OP posts:
Adnerb95 · 17/10/2016 22:00

*her own use

Blistory · 17/10/2016 22:00

But in asking your mum to repay your sister's loan, you are effectively increasing the inheritance you will all get or boosting the value of your sisters assets considerably. Which way depends on ownership shares and how the mortgage is secured. Obviously there may be costs before then but if I was advising your Mum independently I would point out the vested interest that her children have in maximising their inheritance.

To put it bluntly, it looks like your mum is being financially bullied. I know you are approaching this from a position of concern about your sister but your Mum is entitled to make her own financial decisions. Why should your Mum sacrifice her security ?

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 22:01

"not enough to pay the interest on the mortage? She'll have to if your sister can't - unless she wants to lose her house. It's up to her."

Maybe, if they can both claim DLA (mum doesn't claim it now although she would be entitled to it). It's not means tested is it?

OP posts:
Justjoseph · 17/10/2016 22:04

I think there is a middle ground.
I can see that equity release was good for your mum, she clearly didn't care if you all inherit. She has allowed your sister to buy it back, and now thinks it's not her problem, you all get a massive chunk of money at the end after all.
Now the £120k has arrived and it is her inheritance and I can see why she would want to spend it.

I know your sister is helping her to pay for the upkeep but your mum may have been expecting the inheritance and already planned to live off it.

So I can see why your mum is wanting to keep the money.

In light of how sick your sister is, it's flipping selfish. I would be strongly suggesting she paid half of it to the mortgage, that plus the 30k from your sisters inheritance would either take a chunk off the debt or could be used to service the mortgage for the next few years. It would give your sister options to take a year off and sort out her health or cut back her hours. It will be the stress that is causing the reactions.

Inheritance causes so many issues, I would have wanted to watch 600k disappear from my parents estate either. Nightmare.

GiraffesAndButterflies · 17/10/2016 22:05

Your sister has her share of the house, her eventual share of the inheritance and thirty grand.

Aren't those basically all the same thing?

In any case, all the DSis has at the moment is debt. Her mum won't let her cash in on her share of the house, any inheritance at this point is hypothetical, and the 30k isn't enough to wipe out the debt.

I changed my mind OP, forget helping your mum- prize your sister out of there and leave your mum to sink or swim. Angry

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 22:08

"Why should your Mum sacrifice her security ?"

She's planning on spending her inheritance not keeping it in the bank to pay for her care.

But you are right - it's her decision in the end.

I think my sister will have to accept that her wellbeing is not my mum's priority at this point in her life. Maybe my sister should spend some of her inheritance (from the family friend) on having a year off work to focus on her health and perhaps some retraining/doing an MA which would open up new work opportunities for her.

The debt on the house by the way was accrued before my sister moved in. It was my parent's debt. Although the loan is now an interest only loan, rather than a roll up loan, it's fundamentally the same debt.

OP posts:
Whocansay · 17/10/2016 22:08

If neither your sister or mother are prepared to be rational, could you and your brother spread the burden a bit and each buy a 3rd of your sister's share of the house to ease her burden?

Although, downsizing is the obvious option, to me at least. Your mum is asset rich and cash poor (for what she wants anyway). She could move to a fancy apartment that requires little maintenance and wouldn't have to live in a Shock semi detached house!!!

MrsNuckyThompson · 17/10/2016 22:10

In terms of your sister first. I'd encourage her to be signed off work for as along as it takes to get her condition under control and get some treatment. She should explore avenues like acupuncture as well as traditional Medicine. I bet a big part of her condition is stress related.

Then agree you and DB have to have a sit down with your mum and explain all the consequences here of what she's done, how your sister has bailed her out and ultimately what will happen if she is forced to default - ie they'll both be out on their ears.

Maybe you could suggest to your mum she uses half the money to pay into the house and the rest for her jollies. With your sisters inheritance that would leave a mortgage of just 50k to worry about which might help on the monthly outgoings.

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 22:11

"you all get a massive chunk of money at the end after all."

Not necessarily. I'm hoping my mum has at least another decade in her. She may need a great deal of care in later years.

OP posts:
Homebird90 · 17/10/2016 22:12

prize your sister out of there and leave your mum to sink or swim

The sister has a charge on the property in her name. She can't get out of it unless it's paid off (house sold) or she has to default and declares bankruptcy (house sold).

Redken24 · 17/10/2016 22:14

your poor sister - sounds so complicated

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 22:15

"She could move to a fancy apartment that requires little maintenance and wouldn't have to live in a  semi detached house!!!"

If my mum moved into a flat the neighbours wouldn't tolerate her psychotic terrier which barks loudly and hysterically ALL FUCKING DAY!

Her pet is completely antisocial and takes priority over everything including her children and grandchildren

OP posts: