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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel cross and frustrated with mum? Money, mortgage, inheritance

322 replies

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 19:51

I've posted about this on mumsnet before, but the situation has changed a bit in the past year.

The back story: dad did equity release on parental home a few years before he died. My mum never fully understood what she was signing her name to - she didn't understand the concept of compound interest, still doesn't.

Five years on from dad's death and mum now (now 81) lives in the family home with my older sister, who raised a 150K interest only mortgage on her salary to pay off the equity release, and is servicing this fairly large mortgage while she lives at home with my mum. If she hadn't done that it is likely the bulk of the value of the house would have been consumed in a fairly short period of time, leaving my mum stuck in a detached house with a massive garden, which she would struggle to maintain on her own, but unable to leave as she wouldn't have enough money available after paying the equity release off to buy another cheaper property in the very expensive area where she is determined to see her days out.

Now here's the problem: dsis has psoriasis which has become very very bad recently, to the point that her hands and feet are almost completely raw, and she is struggling to get through every day in her very strenuous and responsible (and physically active) job. She has to sleep with plastic bags on her hands and feet, comes home every with blood leaking out of the dressings, and has to spend half an hour after work every day debriding and soaking her hands and feet before wrapping them in clingfilm. Sad This results in her barely managing to keep on top of her work and suffering from quite intense anxiety about it as a knock on. I can't see how she can continue in her job and neither can she, but if she leaves how will she service the mortgage? She is 53 and would struggle to get a job that in any other sector which would be feasible for her with her health problems. She has had this problem for years and has tried many different treatments which until recently kept it under control enough to allow her to function. In the last year however it's got really out of control.

Anyway, a family friend died earlier this year and left my mum 120K and my sister 30K, enough money to pay off the mortgage. As soon as my mum phoned me and told me about the inheritance I said 'brilliant, now you can pay the mortgage off and you can both stop worrying about your future in the house' (ie, can you afford to stay or will you have to sell and downsize if you can't pay the mortgage). DB said exactly the same, and so did my mum's best friend.

All fine. Except not, as mum has decided that she wants to use her part of the inheritance to get the (perfectly decent and functional) kitchen remodelled, go on cruises, and generally live it up, while my sister carries on servicing the mortgage.

My brother put it to my mum that my sister is really struggling with work, to which my mum's response was 'she's lucky to live here in such a lovely house, she's made her choices, now she has to deal with the consequences'.

I feel gutted and angry with my mum. My sister has grafted all her life and never complained. She has never had anyone who's 'got her back'. Her ex partner of 19 years was profoundly selfish and insisted on separate homes/finances until she left him. Then her next partner offered her the security of a home together, but turned out to be a violent abuser. He was a gambler and an alcoholic who ran through all the equity my sister had when she sold her flat to move in with him, and she ended up back in a rented property at 43 with nothing in the bank. She has never asked my parents for anything and is the most honest, sincere, principled person I know. I feel distressed that my mum can't take her needs into account, given that my sister is struggling so badly with her psoriasis. My mum's quality of life is so good for someone of her age. She has a very comfortable income, is active, is still driving, has enough of an income to eat out several times a week, go on holiday with her friends, employ a cleaner and a part-time gardener, and put money in the bank every week. She has a better social life than me and she hasn't worked full time since she was in her 20's. I could understand her wanting to live it up on her inheritance if she didn't already have a really good quality of life, hadn't already travelled the world several times over, been on a cruise, lived in beautiful homes etc. She's said that she wants to give some of the money to my db and me, but we've said firmly that we don't want it, that we want her to pay off the mortgage with it so that this stops being a worry for her and my sister.

It's like she can't compute that not paying off the mortgage means that my sister is trapped on a treadmill of full-time work which she is becoming too ill to cope with. If I try to get this point across to her she gets angry with me and closes down. Tells me to stop upsetting her, that she's old and can't deal with people upsetting her.

I feel oddly distressed about how hard-faced my mum is being. She's a loving person, but she's not behaving like a loving mother to my sister in relation to this issue. I can't see how it's going to pan out right now, and I'm worried about it causing a serious rift between us.

OP posts:
veganburgerqueen · 17/10/2016 20:42

Would your Mum listen to someone independent, like a financial advisor? That way it wouldn't be family members 'ganging up' on her but someone who has expertise and, in her eyes maybe, some authority on these matters. Just a thought.

silverduck · 17/10/2016 20:46

I don't get why your sister took the mortgage - can you explain her motivation? Your mum wants to stay in her house forever. That wasn't at risk with equity release. She had what she wanted and was entitled to live in the house for the rest of her days. Then her kids came along and messed around with this arrangement and now the house is actually at risk of repossession. If you'd have done nothing she would be fine and happy.

It's your opinion that she couldn't cope with the garden etc - but actually that's her choice isn't it? It feels like you are infantalising her, which she is bound to resist as she struggled with this with her husband. I think a previous OP's suggestion of equity release again isn't a bad idea - it puts her back where she started, and your sister has her 30k to get a new place.

silverduck · 17/10/2016 20:48

Or indeed your sister could then stay there for free and still contribute to running costs.

QuiteLikely5 · 17/10/2016 20:48

If I was your sister I would move in with you and give my mother 30 days notice. That would wake her up.

Your mum thinks that because you all stand to inherit 800k that she has a right to enjoy this 120k but bloody hell I couldn't do that at the expense of my child's health!

Get an advisor in to give it to her straight! The advisor needs to say your daughter can no longer pay for the house and here are your options...............she will soon see its sensible to pay the mortgage down

I do hope your sister is being left more of this house in the will than others.......

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 17/10/2016 20:50

If your sister stopped paying her mortgage what would happen to the house, your sister and your mother?

Would your sister have enough money/ part time income/ pension to move on and live somewhere else?

43percentburnt · 17/10/2016 20:55

When does the mortgage term end? Did your sister take the interest only mortgage to aged 65? If so they will have to move in 11.5 years as the term is up. The mortgage is over and unless they have £150k the house has to be sold or repossessed. Does your mum realise this?

This is why it's crazy when people think they will downsize and release money for retirement. People don't want to give up their lovely family home. (When/if she looks at houses wait for her to moan there is no-where to fit her various large pieces of furniture).

frayedbuspass · 17/10/2016 21:01

not the point of the thread, I know, but your sister might want to talk to her doctor/dermatologist about the drug Humira. Often they don't mention it because of the cost but I know folks with psoriasis who've had their lives turned around

graphista · 17/10/2016 21:06

I second the idea of a professional speaking to her.

That said you and your siblings must be sorely tempted to do the following:

Insist she repays your sister
Sister moves out to own place or in with you or brother (she's not too old! My aunt in her late 60's just bought a lovely weekend house of her own).
Leave mother to stew in own acid juices!

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:06

"That wasn't at risk with equity release. She had what she wanted and was entitled to live in the house for the rest of her days."

My mother couldn't comfortably stay in the house without my sister's income and practical input. My mother's income wouldn't comfortably run to heating and maintaining a detached property with a large garden on her own. She really couldn't manage the house and garden without my sister's help. If she then became so disabled she could no longer live alone without care, or needed to move into a care home, there would be no equity left in the house to pay for this.

She is in good health generally but has arthritis, walks with sticks, is registered disabled and finds the stairs a struggle. The thought of her being stuck in that house with no option of moving out as she goes into her late 80's and 90's is not great.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:08

Would add, my sister would NEVER force a sale of the house. In fact she will work herself to destruction to maintain the property and keep my mum in her home. I just don't want to see this happen, and my mum has the means to make sure it doesn't.

OP posts:
Adnerb95 · 17/10/2016 21:09

What a terrible situation.

Suggest you help your sister start packing boxes with her stuff, thoughtfully handing your mother a number of boxes for your own use, arrange for estate agents to come round in preparation for putting it on the market and say you're taking her out for the day and when she asks where you are going, say "to look for your next house".

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:09

"but your sister might want to talk to her doctor/dermatologist about the drug Humira."

Thanks, I shall mention this to her. :-)

OP posts:
Lanaorana1 · 17/10/2016 21:10

Poor DSis - no wonder she's got stress.

Your DM is very good indeed at getting what she wants, and by recent evidence, even better at hanging onto it despite the pathetic needs of her sick child.

Selfish people are buggers to deal with, and old selfish people are worse. But a selfish person faced with the loss of their home may be an easier proposition...

Your best bet to fix this is to appeal to what matters to DM: DM. Make it clear (even if it isn't true*) that DSis may well want to move out one day and that the house's future will be uncertain if DM doesn't pay off the mortgage.

The deal on the table has to be that if DM doesn't buy her own house, DM doesn't have a house.

DM won't want to understand this. She will kick off like a goat on steroids.

Say blithely 'But Mum you're perfectly able to make your future secure, it's your choice' when she starts squealing.

When DM threatens to die early, shriek with laffs and tell her not to book a cruise anytime soon. Repeat ad nauseum.

Make sure DM knows you and DB can't house her.

  • DSis needs out. Talk about toxic parents - offer DSis a home for a month or so to give her some breathing space.
MakeItRain · 17/10/2016 21:11

You need to focus on getting your sister out of her financial tie. Can she stay with you for a while? Could she get signed off work for a couple of weeks, stay with you and think through her options. At least a couple of weeks alone would give your mum a clearer picture of what she stands to lose if your sister wasn't there any more.

midlifehope · 17/10/2016 21:12

This sounds insanely selfish of your mother. I just can't understand her thought processes. Your sister could force a sale of the house - take out her equity and go solo. She should if your mother continues to be so self-centred. Gobsmacked!

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 21:13

"When does the mortgage term end? Did your sister take the interest only mortgage to aged 65? If so they will have to move in 11.5 years as the term is up. The mortgage is over and unless they have £150k the house has to be sold or repossessed. Does your mum realise this?"

A letter arrived from the bank this week pointing this out. My mum said 'I've got a nasty letter from the bank'. I told her that they send these out as a matter of course, but that she has no need to worry as she can pay the mortgage off with her inheritance long before then. She stonewalled me and changed the subject.

Would say though, that in 10 years time I reckon there will be so many people with mortgages that they haven't paid off by retirement that the banks will have to come up with some sort of retirement mortgage plan.....

OP posts:
Sara107 · 17/10/2016 21:15

It sounds like your sister is funding quite a lot of Mum's lifestyle. Is there no way you can get this through to your Mum? Without getting involved in talking about mortgages, equity release etc, just explain that the cleaner, gardener, dog walker etc won't happen any more if sis can't pay for them? Do you think your sister owns a fair share of equity in the house for what she is paying in? If she were to sell her share in the house and add to the £30k inheritance would she have enough to buy a one person, easy to maintain flat? It must be really hard to see this situation arise between two people you love, but it sounds really unfair on your sister and I think she would be better off out of it. Her condition sounds awful, if she gave up work would she get disability benefit? Surely people shouldn't have to be doing physically demanding work with blood seeping through dressings on their hands?

Whocansay · 17/10/2016 21:19

This is insane. They should simply downsize. Selling would release enough money to pay off the debts and buy somewhere outright that they can afford to run. £600K can buy you a very nice house and leave some cash left over so your selfish mother can still have her cruises.

blankmind · 17/10/2016 21:21

"We found that advice from a professional older man was something she was happy to listen to as she was that generation iyswim"

Absolutely agree, this will come as a shock to her which she needs so she can have some perspective.

At her age, large amounts of money weren't available to most people, she'll be used to thinking of a very high value of things being a very few thousand.

She will think the £100+K inheritance figure is a fortune and is going to last her the rest of her life for partying and extravagance.

She needs an authoritative figure to sit down with her and your sister to patiently explain why her ideas are so barmy and to explain her options, not just for momentary pleasure, but for the effect it will have on all of the family, especially your very hardworking sister.

Also, a quick reference to care-home fees, particularly nursing care-home fees as opposed to residential should open her eyes a lot.

CoolCarrie · 17/10/2016 21:22

Your poor sister, my heart goes out to her. As pp said your sister has exchanged one selfish sod for another one, and worse of all it is her own mum. Get someone to set it out plainly to dm and get your sister the medicine she needs with money that your dm is fittering away on her bloody self. Good luck and sincerely hope your sister gets the help she needs. Thank goodness she has got you and db.

PeesInaSquad · 17/10/2016 21:22

Ooh.... bloody equity release. I think it's great that your sibs and you are so supportive of your mum but you also need to look after yourselves and stand up for each other now. This can't continue. Your parents have made their own choices years before now about what they wanted to happen and equity release was it unfortunately.

My DF did equity release and it has really hurt my feelings and still affects our relationship if I'm honest. I know that for anyone to receive any kind of inheritance is just their good luck, but emotionally for me it felt like two fingers up. He did completely understand what it all meant financially, and just wasn't worried about leaving his money to us.
Honestly I will do ANYTHING I can think of to make sure my DC get an inheritance from me. I am so gutted that my DF doesn't feel that way at all. More important to be able to stay in a oversized clapped out house and then to complain endlessly about the upkeep apparently. Sorry to sound bitter OP. CakeFlowers to you in your situation.

2kids2dogsnosense · 17/10/2016 21:25

You mother sounds like the most selfish, entitled witch I have come across - at least on a par with my late and unlamented maternal grandmother. She too, thought only of herself, and used money to control people.

I think your mother knows exactly what she is doing - she only becomes "old" and "upset" when she isn't getting her own way. And I agree that she most probably knew what the equity release meant, but wasn't bothered as long as she could live her life out (which she couldn't d without your sister's input). This is all well and fine if it was only herself affected, but your sister has undertaken a huge debt on her behalf, and she couldn't care how your sister suffers as long as she is alright.

Do as another poster has suggested and accept the money she has offered you and your brother and give it to your sister (does your mother intend to make her a gift, too?).

What proportion of the house does your sister own? Will it be enough (with the gift money) to provide your poor sister with a home?

Then your sister should stop paying the mortgage, let the house get sold and your sister take her share. Your sister also needs to get at least a couple of weeks off work - wilder GP sign her off - so that she can give herself a chance to heal. She must be in terrible pain and distress. Psoriasis is frequently stress-related - I am sure that worry about work and having a roof over her head isn't helping. Does she do the housework and cooking, too? Is she spending a full day at work and then coming in to a full evening of graft at home, too?

I'm so glad you and your brother are standing by her. She needs your love and care, and to know that she is not abandoned.

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 17/10/2016 21:26

Why is your sister so determined to keep your mum in her house, "she will work herself to destruction to maintain the property and keep my mum in her home"? What is your sister's motivation here? Her attitude is far in excess of normal daughterly kindness. It's almost like she is in another abusive relationship.

Whilst your sister feels this way, and your mother knows she feels this way, there is sadly diddly squat you and your brother can do.

I would focus on encouraging your sister to change her mind and bring things to a head so that your mum has to buy her out or sell.

If your sister forced a sale would she have enough money to find herself somewhere to live?

PayAttentionNigel · 17/10/2016 21:27

Your mum will just have to get another equity release and pay your sister back, then she'll have to sort out her own problems, your sister can then use her money to put herself first.
I'm absolutely gobsmacked how utterly selfish your mum is, your poor sister, poor you and your brother too, what a pile of emotional and financial crap to dump on you all.

RandomMess · 17/10/2016 21:27

Ok well the problem at the moment is your DSIS - she needs to wake up and smell the coffee she cannot afford to carry on as she is.

If your sister refuses to sell up and continues to pander to your Mum then eventually all will be lost somehow and the end result the same...

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