To think most women have been victims of sexual assault? Has anyone not?

[Lighthouseturquoise]

Has anyone here honestly never been a victim of some kind sexual assault.

Even if not rape be it some drunk bloke groping you in a nightclub, a date getting heavy handed or pushy,

an ex boyfriend who just got carried away,

a sleazy boss or work colleague roughing your leg or making an appropriate remarks,

a friends boyfriend coming onto you,

a man thinking you were coming onto him because you were friendly then not taking no for an answer,

a boyfriend coercing you into sex or something as a teenager.

Getting beeped at or wolf whistled and feeling embarrassed and uncomfortable.

I think we sweep it all under the carpet and I bet the average woman during her life gets assaulted or harassed more than once.

I am pleased the of the whole girls and young women ate encouraged to be more outspoken. I was born in the early 70's the attitude of don't make a fuss was still very much around when I was a teenager.

^This. When people say they can't understand how Savile got away with it, for example, I really can. Things were different. We blamed the women, we blamed each other. I am so glad attitudes are changing. I was sexually assaulted by the grandfather of the children I au-paired for when I was 18. When I told a friend, she told me that she had warned me about him (she probably had but something got lost in the translation as we only had French in common and neither of us were good at it!) I then barricaded myself into my room every night so he couldn't get in. Why didn't occur to me that I could go to the police? I didn't think I would be believed - his word against mine. I didn't speak the language. I would lose my job and my accommodation (remember these were the days before cell phones so I didn't really have a back up plan). Most of all I didn't want the children (whom I loved) to know what a horrible person their beloved grandfather was! I want my DD to know that I will always be there for her - and she can always walk away from any situation knowing I will support her fully.

I don't think I have ever been sexually assaulted. One bloke I was out with tried to touch me up but stopped as soon as I said no. I have been wolf whistled at a few times but have never personally felt harassed at this.

What I find a bit uncomfortable about this thread is a few times when women on here have said how they feel they have been told that can't be true it's how they've been conditioned to think by men. That is hugely patronising. Just because someone doesn't think the same as you doesn't mean they have been coerced into thinking that.

Yes. It all started around 12 years old. I was definitely pre-pubescent as my periods didn't start until 14 years old. But that didn't stop various older men trying it on in various ways. Mostly verbal insinuations, sometimes physical touching or stroking, getting me alone in a room or trying to. One was a teacher, two others friends of my uncle and aunties who sometimes came to the house.

Once I was developing into a woman from 14 onwards came the shouting in the street at my breasts, which grew very quickly from nothing to quite large. It was soul destroying after my first experiences. This stopped at about 33ish after children altered my body shape. It would happen any time of the day and the men ranged from teens to 30s and it seemed to be a different sort of behaviour to the first group of older men. It was more predatory and trying to claim my body. I was touched up in clubs, had 'friends' grope my breasts and try to 'finger' me. One guy was walking me home and suddenly turned, trying to trip me up and calling me frigid. A group of boys walked me home and a couple groped my breasts. I was too frightened to fight back and then the next day all of my year group teased me for having been 'five fingered'. Around this time I was also groped by a girl who since came out. That was particulary confusing as I was used to it from men.

My first sexual partner spent a lot of time trying to get me to 'experiement' telling me I was boring and wasn't 'letting go' enough. He would continue to have sex with me even if I wasn't lubricated enough and despite me getting upset when he didn't stop. He would say there was something wrong with me and insinuate that I was frigid. We were the same age and I believed him.

But now I'm knocking on 40 and love being 'iinvisible' to men. I can go wherever I like and they don't bother because they aren't after claiming someone who has been claimed and who's body is older. Thank god.

Have to say, I was fairly good looking and it was never something I could enjoy. Other girls would say they envied the fact that lots of boys fancied me etc but I never enjoyed it and was often called 'cold hearted' by the boys at school/in my twenties. I was also never without a boyfriend because so many men came on to me and sad to say I picked the 'safest' option, which often didn't turn out to be see great.

I was also sexually abused in my early years by a girl four years older than me and I think that messed with my boundaries which gave the older men and also the younger 'friends' some sort of sign that they could have a go at touching me etc. Because my response was always to freeze or allow it and think it was sort of normal behaviour whilst also being frightening to me. However the random calling out in the streets or being touched up in clubs cannot be explained by this.

I was conditioned to take it and think that it was my fault I didn't enjoy it because I was frigid, basically.

nerr

I think part of the problem for example with wolf whistling is that if you dont feel harrassed it doesnt mean its not harassment

It just means that you dont mind it or just find it irritating and thats obviously absolutely fine

I cant think of many other examples as my brain isnt working but there are probably things that you and i dont mind but that technically counts as assault or harassment

NerrSnerr

Can I ask you a question? You say you have been wolf whistled? What do you think when that happens?

Rufus I agree. I'm not sure what would count as harassment and what wouldn't, for example is one wolf whistle harassment? If someone followed me down the street shouting I would probably describe that as harassment. I don't know where the law draws the line. What I was trying to say is that someone wolf whistling doesn't make me feel harassed. That has come from me- not years of conditioning from men.

Boundaries I have been wolf whistled. I usually just think 'idiot', but there are lots of things people do that make me think the same. I'm not saying how anyone else should feel but it doesn't bother me. That is just my experience though.

I have been assaulted by men. Many times.
Reported none.

The Ched Evans case sadly makes me feel I glad I didn't. I'm not as brave as her.

I was born in the early 70's and the attitude of don't make a fuss was still very much around when I was a teenager

Agree. When my sister and were aged about seven and ten respectively, a male friend of my mum's used to offer us 50p for a kiss. My mum would be right there when it happened. There were no tongues, but he would squeeze us and kiss us on the lips. My sister once squirmed and tried to get away (I assumed because my mum okayed it, it was 'normal') and my mum told her not to be 'silly'.

daisy. The game show host is a very disturbing example of how men in the seventies seemed to assume all females, regardless of age, were their 'property'. And it's still happening now.

Do you think the person doing the whistling has a right to do it?

I'm not at all saying you are wrong to feel and think the way you do, I suppose i'm just interested. When it happens to me, I think "fuck off, you ignorant sexist twat, how dare you" I think it's an example of men feeling they have a right to comment (in whistle form!) on women's bodies.

I thought I would list what happened
almost daily maybe a few men will read this and understand what women have to deal with on a daily basis. Maybe some of what is written down some would think it wouldn't feel demeaning or threatening but it did to me

Travelling on train to work man standing closer than is necessary

Going through the barriers man pushing himself against me

Walking past building site men making comments

Arriving at working security guard learning at me

At work boss looking down my top

Out for lunch guy in bar stroking my hand while taking my money

After work go for drinks with friends men approach us and when ignored insult us

I walk to the toilets man stands in front of me and blocks my path to get my attention

On way home on train man staring at me and it makes me uncomfortable so I move (if I say anything I am harassing him)

Walking home it's dark I pass a guy he says something along the lines of you look sweet and I feel threatened

Walk faster as I feel vulnerable

Arrive home and feel safe

That is just a normal day in my life Nothing above is criminal but just what happens day in day out and becomes the norm. It shouldn't be the norm all of the above is objectifying some harassment some assault

I found the wolf whistling a threat because I linked it directly to the boys and men who wanted to touch me sexually. So I thought that if I hadn't been riding a bike and was alone with these men they'd do something to me. So the wolf whistling and tit comments frightened me. It also made me angry after the fact because it was so unbalanced. I was always going past them minding my own business and caught off guard and had no chance of retaliating. It got so bad that I knew it was going to happen and I would cross the road or brace myself. If I crossed the road it would be 'why you crossing the road?' shouts so I couldn't win. I lived abroad and it happened there too, so not an English problem.

I still believe, despite all this, that most men would be horrified if they knew their behaviour upset women so much. So the lad behaviour or the boyfriend who calls you frigid are uneducated and probably believe what they are saying to some extent. If they could spend a moment being on the receiving end of it and opened their eyes they'd stop. It's cultural conditioning.

I also believe that it is a minority of men who are sexually aggressive to strangers/women/children they know but that they do it a lot on a daily basis and this accounts for most of the more aggressive assaults. They have some sort of anitsocial disorder and would not be changed by cultural education. Instead, these people enjoy what they do because they get off on the power of hurting someone else. The sort of grabbing down below that is painful people.

Learing not learning ...

I also think that women are conditioned to be complicit.

By that I mean everytime I mentioned what had happened to me it was brushed off by women. Even as a child. 'Oh some men are like that - it happens to everyone' to female friends using what happened (I hadn't even told them - the boys did) to isolate and harass me and even telling me to shut up when I started to talk about how it feels to be assaulted. So I probably talked about being assaulted 3 times and each time either my friends or another woman would tell me to shut up. Nightmare.

One of my friends was being harassed by a man in the chippy commenting on her breasts. She ignored him until he started tyring to grab her. I stepped in between them, but the gf of the man started calling my friend a tart for wearing a top that showed off her bosoms (it didn't reveal any cleavage, she just had large breasts). So she ended up being shouted at by the man and his gf!!! Whilst more or less everyone stood by and watched. All I did was to step in between them, so even I didn't react the way I should have but I was frightened of it getting any worse.

Since writing on this thread I've remembered so many other incidents sparked off by what other people have written. I've also been thinking about a period of my life which wouldn't even be classified as harassment but deeply affected me for many years.

When I was 19/20 I shared a student house for a couple of years with a bunch of guys. This was in the 90s era of laddishness and they used to constantly make comments about women (e.g. every women they met was rated out of 10 for attractiveness) and if any woman displeased them or seemed a bit stand-off-ish - (or there was female lecturer) they'd say 'she wants gang raping'. [Tbf, there was one guy who objected to this and didn't get involved in it].

I don't think any of these guys were rapists and they would say that it was "ironic" laddishness and I thought it was normal behaviour and not something you should make a fuss about. I listened to this stuff day in and day out as a young woman - as well as seeing all the lads mags and associated behaviour/attitudes out in the wider world and it was only afterwards that I realised how much it had affected me. I hated being woman and I was scared of men and I decided to withdraw as much as possible (I didn't have - or want to have - a relationship for several years - I wanted to be invisible, asexual and not be seen/treated as a woman). It really concerns me that this is the culture that a lot of girls and young women are growing up in and that they are taught to see it as normal and not make a fuss about it.

And men wonder why women are afraid of them!? It's heartbreaking to read this thread, and yet it also makes me feel strangely better to know that I am not alone in these experiences.

Yes, I have been sexually assulted and harassed: on the street, on public transport, at my workplace and on nights out (but actually, probably the least on night's out), as a child and as an adult.

I was 14 and walking home from school when a man grabbed me from behind and stuck his fingers up my vagina. I'm sorry to be so graphic, but I feel like people can minimize it by using terms like "groping" etc. Some of the posts on here are trying to equate men's experiences with the experiences described here, but the equivalent to what happened to me would be a woman grabbing a man/boy, putting her hand down his trousers and pushing her fingers up his anus. How often does that happen? I think it is quite frequently perpetrated by men on other men/boys, but it would be very unusual for a woman to do that.

I am also sorry to say that nearly all the women I am close to in my life, family member and friends, have also had experiences of sexual abuse, rape and assault (not to mention harassment, inappropriate propositions etc.) This is not new. My 98 year old grandmother told me many years ago of how as a child, her father used to send her to collect rent from a tenant, and the tenant used to sexually "molest" her.

When I first had my daughter, I really panicked, because all I could think of was that generations of women in my family had been sexually abused and it was bound to happen to her. I cried for days. These last couple of weeks I have also found very triggering (I know people hate that word, but it's descriptive in this instance: flashbacks, crying, etc.) All Donald Trump's talk of "grabbing her pussy" has brought back my experience of sexual assault as a young, naive teenager, who felt guilty for something that I had no control over, and who didn't tell my parents because I loved them so much and I didn't want them to feel pain. I know many, many women have experienced much worse than me, but that day (and all the other instances of men masturbating on trains, yelling shit out of cars, etc etc.) have really effected me and my sex life. I just feel so angry that women are still putting up with this shit.

It's not that we as women are putting up with it, it's inflicted on us we don't have any choice

But we can incourage girls to speak out teach them it is not acceptable and we can teach boys from a young age that any form of harassment no matter how is seems to them is unacceptable and wrong and that it demeans girls/women

I've often wondered this myself.

I have a catalogue of sexual assault and abuse that started from the age of 5. I won't list it all here - makes depressing reading!

However, I will mention one incident.
I was almost dragged into a van by a man who stopped me to ask for directions.
Had it not been for the actions of a vigilant lorry driver, who sounded his horn and pulled over, scaring the bastard off, I might well have been abducted.

Just wanted to highlight that there are men out there who are decent and respectful: they regard these slimy creeps with the contempt they deserve. I'd go as far as saying they're the majority. I think we need to encourage their attitude and point out how much more attractive we find a mutually respectful man.

Excuse spelling mistakes my autocorrect is changing words

My heart sank when I read Maddie post. Troll or not, her opinions are still clearly what too many people still believe.

I was sober when my neighbour did what he did to me. I was 13, had never drank in my life.

I was also stone cold sober when I had sex with a man and found out after we had sex that he had arranged his friend to come over and hide and steal my purse and the money I had while we were having sex. Sex was just a way to distract me while they took my money. It felt like a form of sexual assault.

I was also sober when a man stopped his car to shout out at the window that he wanted to fuck me and started doing some weird shit with his tongue which I believe was meant to be an impression of him performing oral sex.

I wasn't sober when another man told me my lips are so big I must be great at 'sucking dick'. I was with my mum though, minding my own business listening to the band.

We should all speak out more. WE shouldn't let men away with their response of ''ah but not all men''. This is so common, and men have no right to fob us off with ''ah but not me'' as if, it doesn't matter or it isn't a big deal because not ''all'' men do this.

So many do it. And so many do it partly because it's constantly minimised and women aren't allowed to even mention it because the response they get when they mention it is ''not all men'' or 'bad stuff happens to men too''.

The first time I was groped was when I was about 11, final year of primary school. I was quite early to develop and one boy in my class thought it was hilarious to regularly grab my breasts, punch them, or grab them and twist. I remember being reduced to tears as it was so painful, but when the teacher asked what was wrong I always said 'nothing' because I was too ashamed to admit to what happened. Never told my parents either. In fact, I've never told anyone, and I'm in my 40s now.

The first two or three years of secondary school were pretty hellish too, with similar groping and pinging of bra straps, or trying to unfasten my bra when sitting behind me in class.

And when I was 14 I was groped by a teacher, who also rubbed his crotch against my bum. But I honestly didn't quite understand what he was doing.

And the endless catcalling, groping in pubs and clubs etc that I endured in my younger years.

However, where I differ from many other women is that I have never been groped or assaulted by someone that I trusted. No problems with boyfriends, friends partners, friends fathers, brothers etc. For which I am very grateful.

We don't meet it pointing out that no all men blah blah blah

The issue is not that the issue is far too many men do and that many just don't see the low level harassment as being a problem and that needs addressing

Lost count how many times I have had my arse or cock grabbed in night clubs/pubs by women

Have been whistled at while out jogging

Have had drunk women try and force themselves on me

Have had two women from a hen party try and forcibly remove my boxer shorts after I refused to hand them over as part of their 'dare'

When I was a student I worked part time in an office and has various middle aged women take great amusement in making me feel uncomfortable by asking me questions about my sex life or asking how big my cock was.

Haven't RTFT, shocked at the minimising and victim blaming on the first few pages. Absolutely cannot believe the number of women who still don't recognise sexual harassment for what it is.

I have been raped. I have also been assaulted and harassed regularly from puberty until now (fifties). Because I am a woman.

In fact I was sexually assaulted yesterderday at a lunch party for an elderly relative. The man didn't mean anything by it of course, he didn't see anything wrong with grabbing a random woman round the waist and accidentally having a bit of a fumble. Grubby pervert.