To think most women have been victims of sexual assault? Has anyone not?

[Lighthouseturquoise]

Has anyone here honestly never been a victim of some kind sexual assault.

Even if not rape be it some drunk bloke groping you in a nightclub, a date getting heavy handed or pushy,

an ex boyfriend who just got carried away,

a sleazy boss or work colleague roughing your leg or making an appropriate remarks,

a friends boyfriend coming onto you,

a man thinking you were coming onto him because you were friendly then not taking no for an answer,

a boyfriend coercing you into sex or something as a teenager.

Getting beeped at or wolf whistled and feeling embarrassed and uncomfortable.

I think we sweep it all under the carpet and I bet the average woman during her life gets assaulted or harassed more than once.

[ecuse]

It has taken me three days to read this thread, which I have often wanted to stop. But I felt like I couldn't help but read - bear witness to - the experiences here.

Like lots of people, I thought 'no, never been raped', and have remembered more and more as the thread has gone on. Some of which I'm horrified I forgot.

• lots of nightclub groping and grinding - something a poster said upthread about it being the lads mag 90s culture really resonated with me. I think I did my fair share of bum pinching and unsolicited grinding in return because I just thought that's how it worked. But I'm not proud in hindsight. I spent a lot of my late teens/early 20s trying to be 'one of the lads', a and minimising sexually aggressive behaviour.
  
• fair bit of cat calling which mostly makes me humiliated/uncomfortable because, being fat and plain, I assume they're taking the piss
  
• as a 15yo, my step grandfather (first time I met him, we were on holiday staying near where he lived) kept going on about what a lovely young girl I was, how happy he was to have met me at last. Clearly remember him standing facing me, grabbing my upper arms and massaging them with his thumbs, working his way up the sleeves of my T-shirt , into my armpit and under my bra, rubbing the side of my boobs. All time he was holding me really tightly. I was terrified. Never saw him again, made it my mission to find excuses not to see him, thank goodness he and my SF weren't closer.
  

-early 20s in London, flashed on the street at night by a middle aged man
-early 20s again, also London, on a first date with someone I meet online dating. Terrible date, no chemistry, walking back to tube in awkward silence and he chooses the moment we're in a dark alley to tell me he has a huge erection. Nothing happened and I don't think he meant to intimidate me particularly (although, wft?!). But it did make me really feel my potential vulnerability if he had tried to assault me. Also, it was SO out of context for the tube of the evening I wonder whether he was trying to unsettle me.
-lots of incidents (5 or 6?) of being cornered on buses by men 'flirting' with me, then getting at best petulant and at worst shouty when I wasn't interested - implying I was 'up myself' for not wanting to give them my number
-late 20s in New York - stranger frotting against my hands 'to completion' on a packed Saturday night subway train. Instead of moving/shouting/anything I froze and just let him do it. Made a pub anecdote of it but actually it made me feel sick.

• in my mid 20s, unbelievably drunk, brought a stranger home and had sex with him. Don't remember any of it except a few jumbled snapshot images. Expect I was enthusiastic participant on its own terms but must have been REALLY obviously hammered, barely coherent. When I woke up he had stolen laptop, money, phone, passport. My (temporary, stranger) flatmates were angry at me for being so promiscuous as to bring home a thief and putting them at risk (although none of their stuff was taken); they asked me to leave. I was humiliated, ashamed, felt like a slut. Didn't appear to occur to any of them he almost certainly targeted me because I was so drunk and in some ways I felt raped. Certainly humiliated, violated and scared. I don't think I was physically forced, although I have no recollection, but I think I was coerced under false pretences. Reported to police, asked to be tested for rohypnol (which was negative). They went through the motions but I had the impression they thought I was stupid and slutty. Refused to ask nightclub for CCTV of us leaving, or talk to the club about whether this had happened before, or interview door staff. Wouldn't even pass on the description my friend gave them. I called the club in the end and told them myself because I wanted them to be on the lookout in case he tried to do it to someone else.
  

All that stuff, and although obviously others have had far worse happen, I find it hard to believe I thought 'nope, not me' at first. And scared for my two little girls. How do I keep them safe?

[treaclesoda]

I come from a religious family background where pre-marital sex was completely out of the question. If I had been raped as a teenager in the 1990s there is no way I would have risked reporting it because I simply couldn't have been questioned in court and admitted to not being a virgin, it would have torn my life apart. That's why it really pisses me off to hear 'I teach my daughters not to put themselves in a vulnerable position'. My (very loving) parents thought that because I was 'well brought up ' I would never be vulnerable. But I was, we all are. For no other reason than because we are female.

[CheesyWeez]

Another insight into why we are only remembering this stuff when we read others' experiences. From little girls we learn to get by. I am not having any more of it.
www.huffingtonpost.com/gretchen-kelly/the-thing-all-women-do-you-dont-know-about_b_8630416.html?
On Saturday night a young couple were in the road behind or house. The man was shouting at the woman, right in her face and jabbing her cheek with his finger, saying "come to my house now." I shouted out to her from upstairs, "Do you need help miss?" HE says to me "we're just talking". I said I was not asking HIM, and asked HER again if she needed help. They went out of sight and I ran down but they'd gone. Now I feel bad I didn't call the police. My (male) neighbour said don't get involved she probably cheated on him or something. What?! This stuff makes my blood boil.

[FannyFifer]

I once went back to a party at someone's house with a guy I kind of knew, was around 18/19 & very drunk.
We went to a bedroom, i enjoyed sex & was fine and consenting for this.
Half way through I realised I was drunker than I thought, he went to the loo, I think I nodded of for a bit.
Felt him start kissing me again & begin having sex only after I realised that it was someone else having sex with me, one of his friends instead.
I never reported it, would never have been believed, only knew guy I went back withs first name, didn't know where I was etc.
Tbh i put myself in some very silly & dangerous situations following this & slept with a lot of guys, trying to pretend I was the one in control I guess.
I only really thought of this actually during the Ched Evans case as it seemed a bit like a similar situation.
Never spoken or written of this till now.

[RebelRogue]

Funnily enough deblet, for the worst bits,i was always sober,with someone related or trusted,not in a club and even underage in some cases. It was actually at my drunkest,most outlandish behaviour(was on a self destructive path..as you do :) ) when i discovered kindness,respect and consideration.

[SuckingEggs]

Another statistic here.

[seriouslyclueless]

So, just spoke to my DD(17) about some of the issues on this thread.
She genuinely hasn't received any unwanted sexual harassment and was shocked at some of the things I discussed some have had to endure.

We were discussing that a lot of the things were historical abuse that posters were now remembering and happened in the Jimmy Saville type era and maybe, just maybe there is hope for our Daughters.
Of course what happened with CE wasn't historical and I do need to bring things like this up with her too.

When the times right I'll also need to have a big talk with my young son about consent. Already I see in him differences in his behaviours than with my DD.
What's also so sad in light of all the abuse that all of us females have to endure is that in the UK we are deemed a nation that treats females fairly compared to other parts of the world. I will often say to my DD she is lucky to be living in a country where she is entitled to a free education and freedom to make her own choices but after reading this thread I'm not so sure that we are.

[venusinscorpio]

I think it's definitely a big part of the problem for young women today that it's less overt and more insidious and has more to do with pressure from peers and the media. There's a lot of social shaming and minimising and dismissal.

[mycatwantstokillme1]

The ONLY good thing about this disgraceful farce is that (I hope and think) more people are outraged tha sumpathetic to him. Before our anger dissapates as it would naturally over time we need to organise, to put pressure on MP's & others to get rid of Section 41 altogether, so women's sexual history is never allowed to be brought up in rape trials. It has no bearing on when a woman consented on the night in question.

[TellMeStraight]

This might be for another thread, but how and when we do start to educate our boys?

Last week I saw a 5yo boy (a 'nice' boy, from a 'nice' family) coerce a 5yo girl in to showing him the top of her tights (which would have been her pants was she not wearing tights). She did as she was asked and looked visibly uncomfortable with it.

How do I stop my little boy turning in to someone a woman might one day fear?

[merinocoolnailpolish]

I've had to NC for this.

A pensioner at an old folks home on my paper round, aged 13.

My mother, aged 9 or 10.

My ex husband.

An old flatmate.

I'm sorry I can't give exact details, they would be awfully outing.

And I was sober for all the above, by the way.

Only time I was drunk, shitfaced actually, was when someone attacked me on my way home and I gave him a face full of broken bottle.

My twin was taken by a pedophile when we were young. Pre 9 years old. But of course that is a different story. to all.
apart from giblet. Goady fucker.

[CleanBedLinen]

Merino that's horrendous. I'm so sorry. I don't know what else to say to you. X

[TragicallyUnbeyachted]

TellMeStraight, it's never too early to start "if everyone isn't having fun, then you stop right away" - initially it applies to general kids' rough-and-tumble but they have plenty of time to internalize the message. Stop means stop, whether it's tickling or anything else. They don't have to hug or kiss anyone they don't want to, and not does anyone else. This is all stuff they need to hear and hear often. Then conversations actually about respect for women and bodily autonomy should only ever need to be tweaking / discussion of how things might come across.

But check back with me in another ten years...

merino, so sorry you've been through that.

[Felascloak]

tellme there is a thread about it in feminist chat

[Felascloak]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2758126-Advice-on-discussing-consent-and-treating-girls-like-human-beings-chat-for-8-year-old

[FurryLittleTwerp]

Aged 12 a business colleague of my father's leerily looked at my chest & said "I see your tits are growing"

Aged 14 a neighbour got pissed at our house during a boozy lunch then took myself, my brother & his daughter sledging. While the younger two were whizzing down the slope he cornered me against a hedge, flopped out his nasty purple penis saying, "touch it for me Furry." I barged past him & told my parents later - my Dad had a word, but it was brushed under the carpet & excused as his being drunk - we even went on holiday later that spring with him, his wife & daughter as it was already paid for


Aged 15 a friend of my parents grabbed me, put me over his knee & spanked my bottom because I had been cheeky to him. I dug my nails into the back of his hand & drew blood. This was in front of my parents - he was staying for dinner

All the "usual" whistling, groping & comments in nightclubs while away at university. I don't even have big boobs.

[shovetheholly]

Every single day - at school. Teachers and male pupils alike. I thought it was normal until I went to university.

We have to do better at educating boys, and we must react with furious solidarity to any suggestion of "boys will be boys".

[Datun]

Nothing massively traumatising like some of the poor loves on here . It's heart breaking.

Just the usual leering, propositioning, intimidation and entitled attitude.

And if anyone still thinks it's not about power and control just look at how many posters start with 'when I was 5...6...8'.

We need a cultural shift. Now is the time - with the media reporting of Ched Evans, Trump, the Rotherham gang. Keep talking about misogyny, rape myths, victim blaming with sons, husbands, brothers and fathers. When someone in the pub says 'cor, look at the rack on that' let them feel the discomfort, that it's unacceptable.

[Kr1stina]

I'm just amazed at the poster who says their teenage DD has never been sexually harassed. Unlesss she's HE and has never spent time with any other teens .

So no kids have ever made any unwanted comments about her appearance, or touched her without her consent , asked her for sexual photos or sent her some . No boys has ever propositioned her in an inappropriate way or abused her when she declined his advances. She's never heard a girl called a slag or shamed for doing things that boys do all the time. She's never heard boys talking about girls as if they were objects and she doesn't know anything about porn or go on social media.

Really ?

These things happen every single day in every single high school in the country.

[Unicornsandrainbows3]

Never been drunk in my life and never taken drugs. It still happened to me. In a school uniform. At school. As a child. By the teacher. And again later. At home. With my now exH. Someone I should have been able to trust.

But you know what? It doesn't matter. A woman who's raped while drunk/wearing a skirt/while at a night club is no less serious than a woman who is raped in her home while drinking water and wearing a baggy tracksuit. Neither asked for it. Neither caused it. Neither deserved it.

A woman should be able to be so drunk she can't see straight and still has the right to expect she won't be assaulted!! Likewise she should be able to wear what she wants and go where she wants when she wants without being assaulted!

I honestly don't get how that is so fucking difficult to understand. But obviously for many it is. Sometimes I really hate the world.

[Unicornsandrainbows3]

You know what else? It's still a world wide problem. There are people telling their stories on this thread who are from the UK but also Australia, NZ, America and all over. It's just so sad.

[BigFatTent]

This thread is an uncomfortable read for me. I have experienced all of this.

The first time I met exP (father to dc) he repeatedly groped me, despite my objections. Later, he had sex with me, despite me saying no many times. As I gave in and let him, and later had consensual sex, although I was uncomfortable about it, I brushed it under the carpet. I still struggle to say it was rape as I was open to some sexual contact at the time, but it certainly showed me the kind of person he was (even if I didn't want to see it at the time). There were many other incidents where I felt uncomfortable with the sex we had. The relationship became abusive in many other ways too (which I blamed myself for).

I wouldn't change a thing because I have dc but if I hadn't been conditioned to accept this kind of thing just happens, maybe I would have seen it all as a major red flag. You will probably be aghast that I didn't!

[user1476781406]

I've been raped and sexually assaulted. I don't know many women who havent.

[KERALA1]

The adjust your behaviour thing is nonsense. The times I have been harassed have been broad daylight whilst wearing very run of the mill clothes or at work. Perhaps we should follow Saudi and all stay indoors shrouded in black cloaks?

[AvaMercy]

So I've had the following:

Street harassment - Men approaching me (often late at night) and then becoming verbally abusive and aggressive when I've either told them that I didn't want to talk to them or pointed out how inappropriate the timing and location was (quiet road late at night etc). I've also had men shout in the street that I'm a lesbian when I've refused to speak with them or give them my number. Repeatedly

Groping - lots of bum touching in clubs, in my 20s during late 90s early 00s. You would walk through the crowds and you would feel men's hands grab at your bum. Have gotten into some shouting matches some on the occasion I was able to identify the culprit

Men exposing themselves- once on my way home from work in my mid 20s, a man came up to me on the empty platform and kind of indicates with a nod of his head, that I should look down. When I did, his pathetic flaccid little cock was flopped out. I was so angry that he would do this to me that I started shouting and telling him how disgusting he was and that I was going to call the police. He ran off and I did call the police and they took my statement and his description

In all of these cases I have always worried about what a less confident and/or younger woman would have done in these same situations.

Also, in my teens, we would always go to the local park on our lunch break at school. For a good few months when I was about 14 there was a man in a mask who would regularly wank in the bushes whilst wearing a black cycling mask. My small group of friends and I thought it was hilarious and a little fascinating! (We were young and silly and giggly about the idea of someone with their willy out). But then one day he seemed aware of us and then we suddenly all realised that this was actually very very sinister rather than funny! We didn't go back to that park at lunch time for a very long time after that, never looked out for him again and never saw him again. But we never reported what he was doing to an adult and now in hindsight I really regret it and shudder at the thought of what else he may have done and how dangerous it had been all for what at the time just felt like a bit of a giggle at a weirdos expense!

And these are just my own personal experiences. I could go on and on if I you were to ask me about friends and family members experiences