To think that Staffies are not "nanny dogs"

[Flowersinyourhair]

Ok. I await the cries of "it's not the dog, it's the owner" and "we had one and it was wonderful" etc etc. However, once again here we are looking at a news story about a dead baby and a seriously injured toddler as a result of a Staffie attack. AIBU or does something drastic need to change regarding perceptions of dogs like this who are apparently fine, until they're not. This dog was, it seems, the dog of a PC. Not a thug or a dog fighting yob. A PC.

I await the barrage of abuse here. I just feel so sad about these poor defenceless little boys who harmed no one and have suffered so tragically.

Staffy jaws are anatomically completely normal dog jaws

Yes, quite normal for a staffy, but different from other breeds.
I really can't be bothered with pointless uninformed arguments.
I have a vet in my family, so I obviously take notice of what she says.

Kidnapped - I'm not saying they can lock jaws?
I said that they bite and grip making it almost impossible to remove.

I don't think any type of dog that is also likely to go for faces rather than legs as a rule should be in a house with kids.

It's always the same type of dog , one that looks tough, that may be a cross, but still looks like some ugly brute in all these attacks. And it's laughable to pretend that there's as much danger from a lab.

It's not the breed that is the issue its the owners actions in general.

I have three children and three German shepherds. Do I leave them alone? No never. No matter how much your dog if your "fur baby" it's an animal with animal instincts, it cannot tell you when it's in pain, when it's mad etc

The reason most attacks are by family dogs is because people become complacent and "oh dolly couldn't hurt a fly" add to that dogs brought cheaply on impulse and not trained and you have a mix for disaster.

The dogs I've met out in public that are aggressive are mainly small dogs such as chihuahuas because the owners don't train them, it's just their bite wouldn't do as much damage as my dogs would. You label a dog as a nanny dog etc and people think they don't need to train it.

"It's always the same type of dog , one that looks tough, that may be a cross, but still looks like some ugly brute in all these attacks. And it's laughable to pretend that there's as much danger from a lab."

And if it's crossed with a lab? How does that work? Is it safer? Are staffy genetics different to other dogs so they're always dominant?

Sraffies are one of the most common pet breeds in the UK so it's not surprising that they are responsible for more bites than some less common breeds. The media also tends to name any crossbreed or bull breed dog as a staffy regardless of whether it actually is or not. If you look at the percentage of staffies who bite though it is statistically less than many other breeds. They can't lock their jaws, that's a myth. Yes, they're a large powerful breed so if they were to bite they are more likely to cause an injury but that doesn't make them any more likely to bite in the first place.

We don't yet know the circumstances of this particular dog bite, but in a lot of the high profile incidents where a child is killed by a dog, the circumstances have been very similar - dog being looked after by someone other than it's owner or is somewhere other than it's usual home, children left unsupervised with the dog, food involved, etc. In other words situations where the risk factor is obviously increased. A 22 month old is the perfect age to unintentionally provoke a dog, they should never ever have been left alone together.

Adding staffies to the list of banned breeds would make no difference whatsoever, dog bites have increased since BSL was introduced, all it does is lull people into a false sense of security. Once staffies were banned a different breed would simply become the focus.

The focus needs to be on responsible pet ownership and specifically on being able to read a dog's body language. Too many times we're told a dog attacked 'for no reason, without warning' and yet there's always a reason and always a warning, they're just more subtle than growling so go unnoticed. If people were more aware of potential triggers and of the more subtle sogns of a stressed or unhappy dog, these incidents could largely be avoided.

No dog breed can somehow lock their jaw. They just have different biting powers

Yes they can! Pitbulls jaws are designed to do just that!

I despair.

Those talking about how staffies 'lock their jaws', can you maybe provide a link or something? I had a quick google which stated that they categorically cannot.

Are people merely saying that staffies can hold onto something in its mouth for a long time without giving up easily? That's true of course. And true of most dogs I would have thought.

Maybe we are talking at cross-purposes with the 'locked jaw' thing.

No such thing as a locked jaw!!

I despair. A simple google search will be informative. HTH

Link to evidence of staffies and their miraculous locking jaws, meta?

For the stupid among us?

For reference, some of the signs to look out for in a stressed or unhappy dog are:

Panting when not hot
Yawning when not tired
Lip licking
Stiffening of the body or tail
Avoidance (turning head/body away, walking away)
Showing the whites of the eyes

If a dog is at the point of growling or showing it's teeth you've already missed several initial warning signs.

Google will tell u that many other breeds are responsible for attacks on children and babies. Irresponsible dog owners /poor judgement are always the reason for these kind of attacks - breed is not the issue

But they rarely result in deaths. Pit bull attacks most often do.

Metaphoricus a Staffie and a pit bull ARE NOT THE SAME FUCKING BREED

Staffies cannot lock their Jaw. No dog can. Only reptiles have this ability. What they do is hold on regardless of a counter-attack. But again many dogs are taught to do this. Police dogs for one.

I really do feel for the family and child involved. I do not know the circumstances but I also feel for the dog.

No dog should be left around young children and having young children should be a reason NOT to get a dog IMO. Most rescues will not rehome to families with young children and how can you expect to train a puppy in an environment with young children? Obviously if you have a well trained dog and then have children (as I did) you can judge their character but even then I would have never left mine alone. We lost him last year and would not consider another dog until my youngest is at least 5/6 years.

I have a vet in my family, so I obviously take notice of what she says

She's a vet, she's not omniscient.

Here's a link that says otherwise blog.sfgate.com/pets/2010/09/10/pet-myths-do-certain-dog-breeds-have-locking-jaws/

Here's the breed standard from the KC, no mention of radically different jaw anatomy www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/standard.aspx?id=3080

There's just no evidence that the Staffie has been bred with a jaw anatomy so radically different from other domestic breeds that it can do something no other breed can. It's a breed, not a sub-species. It has strong facial muscles, like any terrier, but the actual anatomy isn't radically different.

Bear in mind as well that pit bulls include different types of dog and that definitions vary between countries.

If you're going to say the jaw locks, you need to provide some kind of evidence of an anatomical mechanism that allows for this, beyond "well I know a vet and she said so". Members of my family are experts in various fields, I don't take what they say entirely on faith, as wise as they are.

The lock jaw is a myth, for christ's sake. It's been debunked countless times

It's a fucking physiological fact! A pit bull's jaws are different to most dogs, in that they lock onto their prey! The jaws have a different configuration! And they shake their prey till it's dead! Google it! There are X-rays of pitbull dog breeds that prove that their jaws are designed to lock onto their prey! There have been people who have been bitten, and the dog, even when sedated, just cannot let go.

Anyway. It's quite obvious to me that you are talking out of your arse,
and from a position of ignorance. So carry on. I'm betting you own a pit bull.

pit bulls are not strictly a breed but refers to a type of dog which includes ancestory with the Staff.

Pit Bulls historically refer to dogs that were used to fight in pits.

In the UK when talking about banned pit bulls, they refer to a dog with a certain mixed DNA of terrier breed and bull breed.

HTH

Staffies are known for their ability to cling onto their 'prey' though aren't they. And for their apparently lower pain threshold, so that if they've got hold of you or your child you're very unlikely to be able to stop them. Add to that a muscular body and a terrier instinct and you've got the potential for death.

"The jaws have a different configuration!"

Except they don't.

"And they shake their prey till it's dead!"

Well yes, it's a terrier trait...comes from hunting rats and rabbits and what have you, like Yorkshire terriers or Jack Russells.

Mishaps said: I'd shoot every "staffie" in Britain - for heaven's sake what are we thinking about to tolerate these dreadful creatures in people's homes? They, and many other dogs, are simply not safe and need to be got rid of. It should be illegal to breed them

Yeah. That.

But through all of this... my question is why in the name of all that is holy would you think of having a pit bull, staffie or whatever with young children?

Metaphoricus I am sorry but you are wrong!!!!

All dogs have the ability to hold and shake. Police dogs for one can be beaten and will not let go! That is a dog for you! Not Staffs. The term lock on means just this and has nothing to do with the jaw itself.

Exactly Rousette. Exactly.

" I have yet to meet someone that knows dogs in a professional capacity or has a lot of real knowledge of dogs to have this opinion of Staffie's

My bil is a vet, and he thinks staffies and pitbulls are an aggressive and dangerous breed. Just saying.