To think that Staffies are not "nanny dogs"

[Flowersinyourhair]

Ok. I await the cries of "it's not the dog, it's the owner" and "we had one and it was wonderful" etc etc. However, once again here we are looking at a news story about a dead baby and a seriously injured toddler as a result of a Staffie attack. AIBU or does something drastic need to change regarding perceptions of dogs like this who are apparently fine, until they're not. This dog was, it seems, the dog of a PC. Not a thug or a dog fighting yob. A PC.

I await the barrage of abuse here. I just feel so sad about these poor defenceless little boys who harmed no one and have suffered so tragically.

Mishaps you sound deranged.

Hth

I suspect the professionals who dealt with this tragedy today would disagree to be honest.

According to a PP it's not been confirmed the dog was a Staffie and perhaps my post wasn't clear but IF it turns out to have been a staffie this doesn't mean all Staffie's are dangerous/vicious, there was a post about a lab that attacked someone - does this mean or labs are dangerous/viscous?... no! It means the dog had an irresponsible owner or was poorly trained.

Genetics and breeding, behaviour and training all matter.

In our extended family, there was a blue Picardy spaniel, who was the sweetest dog ever. She was a tad smaller than a lab, a well trained and well loved pet. There were also a number of Westies, who were all a bit aggro and had small dog syndrome. But then sometimes people were not too considerate of the Westies.

I'd trust the spaniel around older children (never trust any dog around little kids) but would not have trusted the Westies, even though they were smaller than the spaniel.

If an angry Chihuahua was coming at me, could I overpower it? Yes, its puny. Could I stop a pitbull, Rottweiler, German Shepherd or the like? Not a chance (I'm puny).

I just feel sorry for the family. Those poor babas.

Mishaps, you would really shoot every dog that looked a certain shape? Have you any idea how ridiculous that is? All dogs are the same species. It is the same as saying all black dogs are dangerous, or all small dogs are dangerous.

People are being taken in by lazy reporting.

It doesn't change what has happened to that poor family, but people need to be educated before they get a dog, as so many accidents could be avoided with different behaviour from humans.

Every dog owner should be aware that dogs dont automatically recognise babies as baby humans. They look, smell, and act like prey or toys.
I'm a lifelong dog owner and never took any chances with my DC's and my dogs. That meant I trained the hell out of the dogs and kept them separate unless under close supervision.

Perhaps we were just super lucky or perhaps the vast majority of dogs are able to left alone without causing harm ?

Good luck with that then. I, personally, wouldn't take the risk.
Read the papers. It happens. "Oh he is such a lovely dog!" That's what they've all said. All the people who have had their kids bitten by the dog.

They are animals, not family members.

Metaphoricus Are you forgetting that humans are animals?

There are a hell of a lot more deplorable humans out there than there are "non-human" animals.

I have a dog, a very gentle, now quite old greyhound cross. She has never ever demonstrated the slightest aggression in any situation. I am cautious with her around my son and would not leave them together for any length of time but i do feel happy nipping to the loo or grab something from another room.
I would not live with a dog that i felt i had to constantly be alert to around my child. I can't understand why anyone would take such a risk because, even if you are in the room, you probably would not be able to stop an attack.
My dog is small, light, not very strong and has a very relaxed and docile temperament. If those things were not the case i would have rehomed her when i had my son .
I am not naive to think there is no risk, but the risk is minimal. I cannot understand why anyone would choose to live with a large, strong heavy dog of a breed which has a known track record of attacking , when they have a child who has no hope of defending themself.

But pure-bred staffies are small - not large animals at all. The Kennel Club states that 41cm is the maximum height for a staffy. And maximum weight of 17KG. Certainly much smaller and lighter than your average Labrador or standard poodle.

The dogs that get derided as "staffies" are usually mixed, larger, breeds. Or not staffies at all.

I have a Labrador/staffy mix and she is much bigger than a pure-breed staffy. She is 26KG.

I am old enough to remember all dogs that have been demonised over the last few decades. Alsations (thank God they changed their name and are now miraculously safe eh?), Dobermans, Rottweilers and now Staffies.

Akitas and husky mixes will be next, I suppose. And new parents will decide not to get a staffy and go for a boxer instead, because you know, boxers are seen as safer because there aren't many of them around.

Ah, the cycle of life.

Any dog that's. Ring constantly touched pestered and teased by a kid is going to retaliate. Breed is irrelevant. Have a dog then don't let your toddler treat it like a toy dogs don't like being grabbed and played with like a rag doll.

"I think you need to do a google search about how pit bulls jaws are configured."

No I really don't. Pit bulls aren't staffies btw as well.

"I just wouldn't have a dog that I didn't know I could over power if push came to shove"

Staffies, just to be clear come to less than mid calf and weigh about 2 stones...they're pretty much the same size as a cocker spaniel or a miniature poodle...

The dogs who come to knee height and weigh about twice that are crosses.

You can claim it's nonsense as much as you want, the stats are there that Labs (and other "friendly") breeds are responsible for more attacks than Staffys

This. There are several things going on here.

• Staffs are the 3rd most commonly owned breed, so they will come up in these stories
• even if it isn't actually a staffy, it tends to be reported as such. It could be a cross, a mastiff type, something that someone thinks looks a bit like a staffy and the media run with that rather than finding out
• there's no conspiracy theory needed, the media tend to grab hold of certain stories. They prefer ones about staffs.
• just to add to the links about other breeds, this family have tried to educate people after their Weimaraner attacked and killed their son

Presumably the intention behind discussing this is to prevent or at the very least cut down the number of lethal dog attacks. If you rounded up all staffies tomorrow, sterilised them and herded them onto an island to live out their days away from humans, do you think all dog attacks would cease? No, they wouldn't. So this kneejerk action of blaming staffies is unhelpful. It would be much better to have an informed discussion that might result in better safety around dogs.

So I just read up on the locking jaw thing as it keeps coming up.
Apparently there are certain 'bull' breeds that , although their jaws are the same structure as other dogs', bite and grip - that's why they can be dangled off branches and from ropes by saddos trying to train them to be dangerous or 'hard'.
Other dogs bite and release.

So, with that in mind, I echo a pp - why have a dog in the house you're probably not able to overpower in a threatening situation?

What i am saying is not specifically about staffies though - i would not choose to have any large, strong dog in the home with a child. Not of any breed- even a Labrador. Any dog can attack but at least a small dog, you have some chance of stopping it.
And it is the case that some breeds are more likely to attack than others.
I accept a lot of this is about owner behaviour but what i am advocating is that people use some sense when choosing the right dog for their family.

There is no such thing as an out of the blue all out attack by any family dog. There are always warning signals to look out for that owners ignore. There are always times that the dog feels its space is invaded or is being hurt.

The problem with most dogs in these cases typically being they take all they can, showing warning after warning and eventually they can't take any more. Think of having something constantly pestering you, annoying you, hurting you, invading your space and no matter how many times you as a nice wonderful caring person say 'please don't do that', 'I'm scared please stop' they just carry on and carry on. Most dogs like this don't snap, they don't suddenly try to rip a person (or child) to shreds but some of them do out of self preservation.
Most dogs will growl and nip long before then, such as labs, jack russells, collies etc. Staffies and other 'nanny' breeds typically don't. They take and take and take, giving little cues to ask these people (kids) to stop and the adults have no idea how to listen.
Nanny dogs are great for a one of accident, they forgive and often fuss the person who hurt them giving the impression they don't mind or care more about the others involved, when actually they are saying 'please don't do that again'. Where as a collie might just growl. No dog is good for a child to use as a toy.

^^ absolutely.
i honestly think there should be some social services education based intervention if a new mother is know to have bull terrier type dog in the family home.

"What i am saying is not specifically about staffies though - i would not choose to have any large, strong dog in the home with a child. Not of any breed- even a Labrador. Any dog can attack but at least a small dog, you have some chance of stopping it."

The point about staffies though is that they're not large dogs.

If you worry you wouldn't be able to manhandle a staffy, you'd need to avoid spaniels, any of the terriers that tend to be working bred so differ in size, Jack Russell, patterdakes, border terriers and mini poodles.

So if that's one of the things you pick a dog by - fair enough, but the size of dog that's smaller or less powerful than a staffy is pretty much toy dogs.

"Other dogs bite and release."

They don't always though, I've had a lab cross and a complete mongrel who you could lift with a rope while they were holding it, that's not different to getting a staffy to hang off a stick (on a tree).

Yeah, sure, stretch the already underfunded and understaffed social services even further to look into people who just so happen to own a particular breed of dog.

Personally I am very wary of my child being near any dog, however well trained the animal may be. Children are unpredictable and can do something to upset a dog, who knows how the dog will react.

Metaphoricus The lockjaw thing is a myth

No it's not. And you are an idiot if you believe that.

My parents' staff is a pure bred. He is over 30kg and pure muscle. When he leaps on me to kiss me, I know there is no way in hell I would get him off me if he were to attack. I would never leave him alone with my children.

And this dog is the friendliest, kindest dog on planet earth who is frightened of my 1.5kg kitten. Still no.

noeuf, if you are saying that large heavy dogs shouldn't be in people's homes that's fair enough (though I think you'd have trouble getting people to give up their Labradors, dalmations, st. bernards, Irish setters etc).

But staffies are not large or heavy. And they cannot lock their jaws.

No you are an idiot if you believe it's true

They are incredibly hard to prise apart but their jaws do not lock

All the people talking shit about the locking jaw and shaking the prey should see my very expensive, 5 generation pedigree, impeccably bred dachshund. The way he pounces on a toy and shakes it, leaves me under no illusion that he would cheerfully kill anything he got hold of. He is the least aggressive dog ever, but there is no way on earth I would leave him with a child.

People are naive and frankly fucking stupid if they think any dog can be left with a child. I don't know why we are expected to pussyfoot around that and make allowances.

Apologies.. I've not read the whole thread.. But I've read a bit and got the gist.. I have a dog, a floppy, silly non aggressive passive slob of a dog.. I can lay all over her, she rolls around, does really cute stuff and is generally stupidly floppy, cuddly, dippy, gorgeous and wonderfully loving. She was looked after (doggy day care) by a child minder from 12 weeks old to 3 years old and LOVES children - loves them.. Always in the thick of it, cuddles, sticky fingers, the works. I take her regularly to a friends house with a dog and a small child. My friend is über relaxed. (Great). And whilst I think my dog is the best thing since sliced bread and then some I can never totally 100% relax when my dog and the child are together. I've has my dog since 7 weeks old, she's never shown any aggression ever and is not a breed renowned for it, but in the company of their child I'm always (always!) just that little bit on edge.. Calling my dog back, telling her to sit, making sure she's quiet etc., you can NEVER tell with animals what they're feeling and what will make them snap. I think we've bought our dog up to be a fairly rounded individual but I can't read her mind do I always err on the side of caution. That's all.. I don't knows the details of this case at all but you can never in my mind 100% trust anything, man or beast.