to be considering calling child services on my sister

[IceAuntie]

Hi. Just let me explain my reasoning and i'll let mumsnet decide. My sis, not exactly the maternal type, she only seems interested in her kids if they can get her noticed (in a good way). She has 3 dd, the eldest is 14(from PR), a 3 year old & a 6mnth baby. DDno.1 is basically a mother to DDno.2 as my sis fawns over DDno.3. She is 14! and instead of being a kid, getting ready for GCSE's etc., she is changing nappies (both younger sisters!), cleaning up toddler sick and comforting tears/screams. DDno.2 is totally out of control, she screams and punches to get what she wants and my sis just gives in (e.g.she has just started playgroup in nappies! because she doesn't like the toilet & my sis gave up trying). DDno.3 is a very peaceful child @ present but how long that last who knows. My sis is still on ML and spends her days doing what she wants and ignoring everything else, the house is a tip. The rest of the family has tried to help/advise but she won't have any of it (unless it's free babysitting so she can go out). I could go further but I think you get the point. Am I being too hasty/worried over nothing? or are my DN in real trouble? Please help me mumsnet!

Agreee with everyone saying give the 14 yr old a break, build a relationship with her. I would invite her out when her mum and step dad are both home to both take care of the youngest two so you don't cause resentment with your sister.

I can't believe some of the comments I've just read. This ISN'T about the mother, or the baby, or even the 3yo in nappies, it's about a FOURTEEN year old child who is basically having to care for this family, instead of being a child, or concentrating on her schoolwork.

Please call, that poor girl needs outside help :(

I think your a horrible sister for even suggesting this!

Perhaps your sister is suffering PND and feels embarrassed or unable to ask for help, you really don't know, I had it and it's a living hell, you have no idea unless you live it.

Help her instead of judging her. If you help more then the older daughter can focus on school more.

Sounds like she needs family support. What are you doing to help? DD 1 shouldn't have to step into the breach, but a 3 year old on nappies is nothing to be concerned about. O would talk to her and see what support you can give and start pulling your weight as her sister rather than judging her.

It is not normal at all for the 14 year old to be "parenting" as they are and I'm not sure what planet the posters who think it is are living on. Whether it's neglect or not the whole family needs help and I agree that SS maybe the key to this - they don't just exist to divide families. Please tell someone for everyone's sake.

'SS aren't this big evil thing, like some of you seem to be thinking. They offer support and help, which the sister seems to need, and the kids certainly do. Calling social services because you're concerned about the welfare of children, physical and emotional, is not an evil thing to do'
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^^*This. SS will be able to refer on to early help teams who would give support over parenting, boundaries, etc. I think other agencies can make the referral to Family Support as well. For example, school pastoral support if you contacted them regarding the 14 yr old being a you g carer to get sibling - just say you are concerned about her. You could probably make an anonymous referral to school if you wanted to. It might start the ball rolling to gain support for your sister.

As she has children under 5, couldn't you contact her Health Visitor for advice?

Butt out Auntie.You sound repellent and a trouble maker.This is not a case for social services.I,'m sure your sister needs some help not criticism .

I'd be concerned. Although I think it's probably fine for your sister to ask for some help from your 14 year old niece, some help is very different to 'doing it all, if that is what is actually happening.
I think you should talk to your niece, privately, and try to find out more... she should not be responsible for her sisters at that age, but is that what is actually happening?

Good luck.

My house is often a tip. Unless it's actively dirty then I think you let that go, or perhaps go round and help?

What do you mean by fawning over a baby? Odd choice of words. Babies need a lot of attention.

The stepdad sounds concerning. Lazy bastard needs a kick up the arse. Didn't want another kid but this one was presumably conceived miraculously... lazy git. Are we talking just your bog standard arsehole or is he actively mistreating dd1, physically or emotionally?

Lots of your op sounds very judgey about stuff that's irrelevant- she can spend her ml however she wants!
BUT I would be concerned about a 14 year old with a stepdad who dislikes her and who is being a surrogate mum. That does need a closer eye on it.

You've obviously got concerns - try to ignore the irrelevant stuff (messy house) and focus on the truly concerning things (possible emotional neglect of dd1, possible behaviour issues of dd2)

If the 14-year-old takes care of her siblings to the extent that she is unable to study or have her own life, yes, you should definitely call SS. She is a child too.

Do these children have fathers?

Sorry, I missed the post in which you mentioned the stepfather. Is your niece's father involved in her life in any way?

It all does sound rather horrendous for your niece, yes.

(And I do understand what you say about your sister "fawning over" the baby: presumably she is keener on the baby because babies tend to be easier and less hard work than toddlers).

If a child I was working with disclosed this to me as a TA, I would be filling out a form for the safeguarding lead. I think you've had a rough time on here. It sounds awful for the 14 year old. Not the nappy changing or the helping out but the fact that her needs aren't being met in any way. Also the way her stepfather treats her is disgraceful. Please, please phone and outline your concerns to social services. Wishing you all the best.

I also don't think you should question your niece. You've clearly seen enough to be concerned and if it gets back to your sister that you have questioned your niece it might not be in her best interests. It's a no brainier to me.

I do understand and share the concern for the 14 year old. But...

• She may be absolutely loving being a big sister and be really excited about helping out.
• It doesn't sound to me as if she's really doing all the parenting. There are two adults in the house, and OP mentions her sister 'fawning' over the baby and being involved with DD2's toilet training, and mentions that when DD2 has tantrums "my sis just gives in", so I'm guess that in fact this may be a more dramatic than literal description of the 14 year old's role.
• OP seems shocked by other things that wouldn't shock most parents even if we aspire to avoid them (messy house with a 6-month old baby, 3 year old still wearing nappies) so I did wonder to what extent it was an overreaction.

I mean, sure, call social services. But why wouldn't you just help out a bit first, or take your niece out to see some films and give her some space, if you're concerned?

How much is the eldest doing? Changing a few nappies and babysitting are fine. Playing full time parent isn't.

Also lots of 3 year olds aren't ready to be out of nappies. It's not a crime!

The way the step dad is reacting to the 14 year old is enough of a red flag in my opinion. The whole situation sounds toxic. And I have three children, a messy house and they all wore nappies till 3.

Hmmmm.... u dont think that a 14 year old pitching in with childcare sometimes is a bad thing. All the time it is to the extent where the 14 year old is surrogate mum.... but on the whole yabu

Taking the 14 year old out to see a film is not going to help.

Your poor sister has practically no help from partner or anyone else it would seem, has a tantrumy toddler and a 14 year old and a small baby! Of course the house is a tip! You haven't mentioned if you have any children but I'm assuming not. Life is very very hard just with one baby without having the rest of it too, and no support. Also very hard to potty train a child who is not interested at the same time as looking after a baby. You sound judgmental and nasty, instead of helping your sister which is what she needs you are ranting about her to a load of strangers. A 14 year old is old enough to help with the little ones. Are they fed properly? Kept clean and dressed?

Some people on here have a worrying idea of what's normal. Ok, the house being a bit of a tip, and a 3 year old in nappies isn't a big deal. 3 kids can be hard to cope with- I have 3 myself. And expecting older children to help out now and then with chores is fine.

What isnt fine is a 14 year old child being used as a surrogate parent. It sounds as though her emotional needs are being neglected and that she's being burdened with responsibilities which belong to the parents. As someone mentioned, this is a safeguarding issue. This isn't about people hysterically calling for SS to come and stick the kids in care, and those who are reacting as if it is, are totally failing to understand the central point. Yes, the mum may have PND, yes she may be struggling to cope- but that shouldn't mean the 14 year old carries the burden of caring for the younger children

Spot on Munster.

Get in touch with as, I can guarantee that they will get involved and call it neglect. She will then get what ever help she needs, whether she wants it or not.

Been there, done that, still getting support

The problem is the OP does not know the extent of which the DD1 is helping. So she has changed some nappies, cleaned up some sick and comforts her younger sister when she cries. This does not sound abnormal. Is she making dinner every night? Doing all the washing and cleaning? Bathing her sister, taking her to playgroup and have no time for homework/ socialising? We need to know more, as it stands it does not sound too bad to me.