Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

353 replies

Waterlipe · 27/09/2016 01:26

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

OP posts:
MackerelOfFact · 27/09/2016 11:40

In your shoes, I'd probably name the club something with 'boys' in the title (Crafty Boys or something) and market it squarely at boys, maybe get them 'Crafty Boys' (or whatever) badged aprons, but officially allow girls if approached. I think this would be pretty self-limiting - most girls aren't going to want to sign up to be a Crafty Boy - but not directly discriminatory, because they can officially come along. Any girls that do turn up are likely to be the tomboyish sort and probably benefit from the club as much as the boys.

raisin · 27/09/2016 11:43

As a mum of 3 girls, I think your club is a great idea. Mine really enjoyed similar stuff at Rainbows.

I think the mum just wants the easy fix of dropping off both her kids for an hour.

JsOtherHalf · 27/09/2016 11:58

Ds goes to choir, grudgingly, as he is one of only a few boys.
He went to a cookery course recently and there was only one other boy.

I really have to fight to get him to do this stuff, not because he doesn't like it, but because of the low number of boys.

I hope you find a way for your club to continue.

diddl · 27/09/2016 12:09

Well I think that it's a shame that Op has decided to give up her time voluntarily & one spiteful woman has prevented all the kids going just because both of hers couldn't.

RepentAtLeisure · 27/09/2016 12:13

Perhaps you could look at technicalities. Your club accepts 25 members, any new applications go on a waiting list.

But I do think you're being a bit OTT. If the club is established now, why would 24 of the boys suddenly vanish once a girl was in their midst?

RepentAtLeisure · 27/09/2016 12:15

Actually, diddl - true. The woman's energies would be better spent setting up a club both her kids could join, rather than trying to set the police and council on the OP.

Evilstepmum01 · 27/09/2016 12:23

YANBU. what a fab idea! Allowing boys to be boys without the stigma of being called girly!

You've had a lot of advice on here, (apart from Violetbam......?). So the only thing I would suggest is you fight it. Garner support from parents first.

Whilst fighting it, pay lip service to council and say of course you would accept girls, its just only boys have been turning up. If you run it the same time as Brownies, you'd be fine eh?

If council force you to accept girls (can they?), I'd pay it lip service, limit your numbers and pick one or two token girls.

Whatever you do, the cow who complained about you, her kids are permanently on the waiting list!

Dont let her get to you, carry on doing what you're doing and fight it as far as you can!

speak2me · 27/09/2016 12:32

I'm sorry I don't have any advice but I wanted to say that as a Guide leader myself (15 years experience) and mum of two boys, I wish that scouting was still for just boys. It is unfair that whilst Girl Guiding remains female only, scouts now have to take girls. My boys are to young to attend beavers at the moment but I know they would benefit from boy only time. There are other activities which include boys and girls so why can people be happy with these?!

Gowgirl · 27/09/2016 12:41

You have to wonder how many of the girls in beavers asked to go and how many were signed up by mothers making a point.....

Magicpaintbrush · 27/09/2016 12:43

I think your club sounds fantastic OP and clearly there is a need for afterschool activities in your area.

Apologies if anybody else has already suggested this (I have only read the first few pages of the thread and need to get back to work in a minute, but didn't want to not reply) - but have you thought about training as a leader with the Cubs or Beavers? You sound exactly the sort of community spirited person who would be great at it. My thinking is that you might be able to open an additional Cubs or Beavers unit in your village to meet the demand? I volunteer at Rainbows so my knowledge of Scouting is limited, but I know that Girlguiding UK is always after volunteers and helpers and I would have thought the Scouts are the same?

So, you might be able to use your current slot at the village hall to run your own Cubs or Beavers unit (with some additional adult unit helpers). I think you would be brilliant at it.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 12:44

I honestly think that, had this been a club for girls to do something traditionally male dominated, it would be welcomed by MNers and you would be told what a fabulous idea it was.

Halfords run/ran a basic car maintenance course for women only for example and this was seen as absolutely fine by MNers when there was a thread about it.

IMO, provided opportunities for clubs in general are equal, having a safe single sex space for a group to try activities more commonly done by the opposite sex is absolutely fine.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 12:47

why would 24 of the boys suddenly vanish once a girl was in their midst?

It's not about admitting one girl' it is aboutadmitting girls - it wouldn't stay at just one girl for long and chances are boys wouldn't find the idea of a mixed group appealing so the balance would tip further towards girls.

Noodledoodledoo · 27/09/2016 12:51

I think you are doing a fab thing.

This document might help you - I have only scan read it but has some key points. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85018/private-clubs.pdf

I am also a Guide Leader who thinks Scouts should have stuck to boys only but in the early 90's their numbers were dropping and so decided to open it up to girls as well, in 2007 it was made compulsory that all groups offered all sections (beavers, cubs, scouts, explorers) as co-ed but if they ran two meetings one could be Boys only. Venture Scouts went co-ed in the early 70's.

Guiding has a Royal Charter and its constitution states it is girls only - compare yes but as someone else said previously it also has history on its side. Other male only clubs you may be able to point out, Masons (cynical me - some might be on the council!!), Rotary - possibly still all male, Lions - again might need to check still all male, Boys Brigade

Oh and I have one of each and they are on the Rainbows and Beavers waiting lists so no making a point here =)

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 13:03

Boys Brigade

Nope. They admit girls.

silentlyfume · 27/09/2016 13:03

Well I am so on the fence with this my bottom is splintered. I was recently very annoyed that the only science sessions run in our community was a Dad/Grandad and sons session in which no alternative was on offer and dd wasn't allowed to go.

But at the same time our local clubs offer guides for girls, boys only streetdance, girls martial arts sessions etc. So i am a bit confused how your club is different to that.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 13:07

Rotary club : It is a secular organization open to all people regardless of race, color, creed, religion, gender, or political preference.

Lions appears to be mixed too.

Masons seem to be male only but I suspect that is the least of their flaws!

Strangeday · 27/09/2016 13:09

Silentlyfume see to me that's different because science is stereotypically a boy thing. So I would agree wrong to exclude girls.

Ops group is about engaging boys in something they might otherwise not do.

There was something in my area recently run by the local council for weight loss for men, because men don't generally want to go to weight watchers/slimming world, it's proved to be a big success.

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 13:10

Boys brigade is mixed in some countries. I don't know about the UK as I can't get ontheir website.

RhiWrites · 27/09/2016 13:10

It's not about admitting one girl' it is aboutadmitting girls - it wouldn't stay at just one girl for long and chances are boys wouldn't find the idea of a mixed group appealing so the balance would tip further towards girls.

How exactly? 24 boys and one girl. What happens next? Three boys leave because girls are scary and they are replaced by three girls immediately? Then another five boys leave and again are replaced instantly by a queue of girls?

The girls are fine, they're served by other local clubs. And the OP herself isn't going to remove her sons from the club is she?

Teaching the boys it's ok drop a club they enjoy because now it has girls in is really sexist.

Imagine this was your child. "Mum, I used to like woodcraft but now there are all these girls I don't want to go!" Wouldn't you say "don't be silly, make friends with the girls, they're people too" and send them off to the club.

Strangeday · 27/09/2016 13:16

Rhiwrites do you have sons?

Crafts, sewing and knitting are stereotypically girl activities. These are deep rooted in our society, op can't change that, so by advertising it as a boy club she's doing her bit to engage boy in these activities.

The equivalent is a girls football team, and surely no one would have a problem with that?

Of course the girls can go to the mixed football group, but a girls only team would engage girls who otherwise would think football is for boys.

44PumpLane · 27/09/2016 13:18

Masons where I am is mixed (I'm sure)- one of my friends parents (both his mum and dad) have been masons for years...... does that mean his mum just goes along and sits having a coffee while the men do their thing?

Anyway, that's besides the point.
OP, YANBU!

As others have stated this woman is probably just cheesed off she can't drop both kids off so she's happily ruining it for everyone!

SoupDragon · 27/09/2016 13:18

How exactly? 24 boys and one girl. What happens next? Three boys leave because girls are scary and they are replaced by three girls immediately? Then another five boys leave and again are replaced instantly by a queue of girls?

That is pretty much exactly how it would go, albeit over a longer time frame. The more girls there are, the less appealing it will be for boys.

The girls are fine, they're served by other local clubs. And the OP herself isn't going to remove her sons from the club is she?

If the girls are fine and served by othe local clubs what is the problem? The boys are not served by other local clubs.

Teaching the boys it's ok drop a club they enjoy because now it has girls in is really sexist.

no it isn't. It's not about dropping it because there are girls as such, more about them feeling comfortable and secure. This is the exact argument used to campaign for female only clubs!

Imagine this was your child. "Mum, I used to like woodcraft but now there are all these girls I don't want to go!" Wouldn't you say "don't be silly, make friends with the girls, they're people too" and send them off to the club.

I would not make my child attend a club that made them uncomfortable. I would encourage them but it would be cruel to force them just to fulfill my own beliefs and feelings on the subject. It's not about seeing girls as people - they already do that at school!

Noodledoodledoo · 27/09/2016 13:21

I thought Rotary was split into Rotary for the men, Inner Wheel for the women - I know I have friends who are in the Inner Wheel.

Lions also used to split into Lions and Lady Lions but this I am VERY out of date on as I am going back to the days my grandparents were active.

Strangeday · 27/09/2016 13:23

It's not even about boys not wanting to go to a club with girls.

Look how toy shops work, half the shop for girls half for boys, half pinks and purples half blue.

Boys will just think it's not for them. The best way to get your son to play with a doll is to put it in the boys section and tell him it's an action man.

Waterlipe · 27/09/2016 13:23

I haven't read everything, sorry. I'm in a massive rush this morning.

We don't do it for a profit at all, I have a job, we take 50p from each child per session, that's then roughly enough to cover the cost of the activities for that day. I wouldn't do it for a profit, our area is quite deprived, unfortunately.

Actually, very good idea about finding new location. Also, because we now have parent feedback that it works, that may be easier.

So sorry will come back later and read all.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread