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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

353 replies

Waterlipe · 27/09/2016 01:26

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

OP posts:
FeelingSmurfy · 27/09/2016 10:30

One argument they could come back with is boys who are in scouts taking up a place of a child who can't get in to scouts (or brownies) - just think it's best to be prepared for every eventuality so you have an answer ready

I'm still reading through, I got half way and had to post while I had what I wanted to say in my head!

drspouse · 27/09/2016 10:33

girls being included in scouts has led to a lack of spaces.

Historically it's the opposite. Girls were invited to join Scouts due to declining numbers.

There are still more in Guiding, overall, despite it being girls only, than there are both boys AND girls in Scouting. This is probably due to a number of factors including a) more women being keen to volunteer and of those many wanting to do Guiding rather than Scouting b) girls being encouraged to be "joiners" more but it may also be c) because girls like having a girl-only space more than both sexes like having a mixed space.

By the way are there any boys' choirs at churches locally? Those are also often set up (often with a girls' choir in parallel) so that boys will do something "girly" without the girls present. If there are perhaps approach that church for use of their hall?

MangoMoon · 27/09/2016 10:39

Another voice to add to say YANBU - keep fighting this.

fatowl · 27/09/2016 10:42

I'm a Commissioner and Trainer for Girlguiding.

This has been discussed many many times on MN, and every single time, I see posters trot out with the " why did scouting have to take girls when Guiding can stay girls only?"

Scouting chose to become co-ed due to falling numbers. no one ever forced them to.

Most of the Scouters I know will off the record say they think Scouting was better as boyss only, but they can't say it out loud because that's not the 'Official line'

I think your club is fine OP.
Well done for volunteering, there are not enough people who will.

(I've had a Rainbow mother complaining to me today about something so trivial today I almost said - you know, my own dd is 15 she left Rainbows 9 years ago, but I still turn up every week and run activities for your dd, if you don't like it, open your own group)

Flywheel · 27/09/2016 10:46

I can see where you're coming from op, but I'm really not a fan of segregation at this age. For your group to thrive and remain popular with boys I don't think you need to ban girls. Just pitch the group to boys and let the girls who wish to attend do so. Considering the large number of boys you already have attending, having a group dominated by girls is a long way off. Win win.

DixieNormas · 27/09/2016 10:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lancelottie · 27/09/2016 10:51

OP, I don't know if it helps, but one of my sons' schools (co-ed) divided the English and Maths groups by sex in years 8-9*, to avoid either being dominated by the traditionally stronger sex.

Admittedly it infuriated my son, whose friends were mostly girls, but the school said firmly that it gave both sexes a chance to flourish and speak up.

We also have a girls' rowing group, women-only sailing sessions at the local reservoir, and boys-only and girls-only choirs in the mixed secondary school

I'd agree with those saying that what you need is a parallel girls' group, organised by Ms Moany.

*They put them back together for GCSEs (possibly to avoid being accused of one sex having the better teacher).

EveOnline2016 · 27/09/2016 10:51

I don't see why the ethics of this club to change. It an only boys allowed.

jprincess · 27/09/2016 10:51

What council was this?

lamprey42 · 27/09/2016 10:52

Is there any reason you can't become a volunteer beaver leader? Usually the reason they can't have a new troop is lack of volunteers. May well have been said above so sorry if it has. Sounds like you are doing all the hard work anyway!

Lancelottie · 27/09/2016 10:59

DS was another of those boys who wanted to do arty activities - singing, dance, music etc. He tried and failed to hold his own against the bullying about it when he was the only boy in the choir. Then he moved to the school with boys- (and girls-)only activities, where he was one of 20-30 boys who wanted to sing.

He might not be safe, mind you. DD reckons the boys' choir is better than the girls', and is contemplating identifying as a boy on Monday lunchtimes.

Bambambini · 27/09/2016 11:08

Hope you get to keep your club OP.

I guess on principle you could make all groups mixed. Doesn't matter that in some circumstances single sex groups might really encourage boys and girls to try and flourish in sports and activities that they would have been too intimidated to try if it was a mixed group, especially one dominated or seen to be affilited to a particular sex or gender stereotypes.

MycatsaPirate · 27/09/2016 11:12

yanbu.

The only reason this woman complained is because she doesn't want to have to drop off/collect her two dc from two places.

I have girls. They both do an activity that is girls only which is great for them and they have learned lots of skills along the way. If this activity was opened up to boys I'm pretty sure it would become very competitive very quickly and my girls would no longer wish to go.

I think having single sex activities is good. Yes there are lots of mixed sex groups but as a rule I think kids do better when they are in a group of their peers from the same sex with less chance of worrying about teasing, competitiveness etc.

The fact that you have got a group of 25 boys learning to knit and sew is quite frankly fantastic. I have no doubt if you opened it up to girls the boys would leave in droves.

TaraCarter · 27/09/2016 11:13

sports teams should be mixed at amateur level, certainly at schools level

Well, that's one way to reduce girls' participation in sport. If you're into that sort of thing.

blaeberry · 27/09/2016 11:13

Scouting only 'chose' to take girls when they were taken to court for sex discrimination...

iPost · 27/09/2016 11:17

I would also gladly write a letter supporting you

Ditto.

TotallyOuting · 27/09/2016 11:17

Yep the new troop is boisterous, loud and very qucick with a fart joke, they camp more and generally behave like little boys so girls do change the dynamic.

Surely it's mostly the adults in charge that set the tone of a group like this? Especially the 'they camp more' point...

Scouting only 'chose' to take girls when they were taken to court for sex discrimination...

RTFT

Starlight234 · 27/09/2016 11:17

I think it is a great thing you are doing..

I do agree with the people who say it is ok for girls to want their own space for some reason not the boys..

My DS who loves singing , loved the choir last year I have struggled to get him to rejoin due to the number of girls and lack of boys his age..So yes the amount of girls in a group does influence the boys.

He went to a general after school dance group and low and behold. it was all geared at the girls and he dropped out..

So yes I completely support you.

I think we also can agree with equality in life and recognising girls and boys are different in many ways generally. Celebrate who you are.

Bambambini · 27/09/2016 11:18

And yes sports team being mixed is crazy unless you mean strict limits on sex quotas - like 50-50. Even then there should always be male and female seggregated teams.

Lancelottie · 27/09/2016 11:20

I wonder if you can garner any support from the local schools. It's not unusual for them to have 'boys into reading' type schemes, and craft is another activity in which boys are traditionally more reluctant to take part, or less practised, than the girls. Like you, they might see a need to balance things out in this way.

iseenodust · 27/09/2016 11:25

I think your club is a great idea but cannot go with keeping it boys only - that is discriminatory. However you get to make the feel and tone of it. So no pink, glitter or fairy cakes but (mississippi) mud pies, knit camouflage beanies and dinosaur bookmarks. Gender stereotyping yes but sometimes the end justifies the means. Wink And for any girls who love that stuff well welcome them !

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 27/09/2016 11:27

I'm with you op. You're not breaking any laws and you're meeting a need. From what you have said think you've justified your case that it meets a social need. There is another club available locally just for girls so nobody is deprived.

Until we have true equality between the sexes we need to do stuff to redress the balance and that means working with specific sexes where appropriate.

Crap like this is why people stop volunteering and people think they can't run a group supporting new mothers because it excludes fathers.

The woman who complained sounds spiteful.

Gowgirl · 27/09/2016 11:30

Totally outing some of it is the leaders, the former troop were all female leaders and very organised! I think they missed their calling in the military but I think some of it is down to being all male. The leader of this troop is lovley but very much of the boys will be boys type and the children seem to respond really well to him.

Friolero · 27/09/2016 11:32

YANBU, I think it's a great idea, and hope you get to keep your club open. I would like to see something like that near me.

budgiegirl · 27/09/2016 11:32

Scouting only 'chose' to take girls when they were taken to court for sex discrimination..

When was that, blaeberry? I'd be very interested to see any article relating to that!

I think your club is a great idea but cannot go with keeping it boys only - that is discriminatory

No more so than Brownies, but they are allowed to carry on as girl-only.

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