to be pissed off that the town hall will no longer let me run my club, due to us not accepting girls?

[Waterlipe]

Basically, my 2 sons wanted to join Beavers, there were no places (we have DS2 down on the waiting list, we have since birth, he's now 4, so we'll see if he gets in, but it's unlikely. DS2 is 9, so would be in Cubs, but still haven't got a place yet, has been on the lists for a few years. There are places in Brownies, etc. :( which is frustrating, as the boys would enjoy that too, but oh well, so I set up a crafts club for boys. It used to run at the village hall (it was all official, don't worry) and it was quite popular, the village school isn't great and doesn't offer many extra-curricular activities, so the club that walks the children home (can't think of the company!) often brought the children to me (obviously this was all sorted out with parents) and they did crafts! (btw there was an other after school club in the church rooms (which is just opposite, so there was places for girls to go after school if their parents needed). We had around 3 boys on the first week, but it got up to 25, which we were very happy with! It was just so nice to see them so eager to learn how to do these activities. Anyone, of course, one mum moans that she wants her son and daughter to be in the same place, to which we said that she should put her son in the after school club at the church, oh no, she preferred our activities (it was me and a couple of my friends who ran it)... She threatened to go to the police for sexism, etc.

In the end she came one day and told us how she has written to the council, etc.

We have received a letter (I'll actually attach it to this thread in the morning, I'm just too lazy to get out of bed) about how we can no longer use it unless our rules are changed, but yet this was fine when we first opened it. Maybe no one can help until I attach the letter, which is fair enough. I'll do it when I wake up

YANBU. Fight to keep your club the way it is. There are many good reasons shown in this thread.

I'm a guide leader and we are girls only. I think it's good for girls to have a girl only space. I really do feel for the boys that they don't have that due to scouting taking girls.
So good on you x

Tell Mrs WhatYouShouldDoIs to spend the time and energy she is exerting on moaning to set up her own club. I know the type, she is "too busy"
YANBU

'Boys are lowering themselves if they associate with girls'

I see it the opposite actually. That boys want to do this activity that's historically been associated with females and are intimidated when trying it out amongst people who it is 'for' in the exact same way that a little girl wanting to try wrestling for example might be intimidated if she had to join a class with boys but would enthusiastically join a girls class as it is 'for her'. I see it as a positive that little boys are
keen to do 'girl things'.

The question of should there be activities that are seen as boy activities and girl activities? Of course there shouldn't, but there is and the only way that will change is if more of each sex gets involved in the opposite. Eventually mixed clubs for everything may be fine but that's not the current climate we live in

Well I'm 100% behind womens and girls rights but I don't think that this has anything to do with it.

The ops group sounds brilliant. Like she's said she can't change the world but she's doing a brilliant thing here to introduce boys to activities seen as only for girls.

Believe it or not boys can be excluded from doing activities they enjoy by girls.

Bishop, if you have three children and one wishes to do ballet does that mean the other two have to?
Do you send them all to the same secondary school because they are siblings?

I have 1 DD and 3 sons - I don't think that there is anything wrong with having a 'boys only club' or 'girls only club' as long as in doing so you are not removing a chance for a child to enjoy something. In this case, there seem to be clubs that offer similar activity that are open to girls/both genders and therefore I would be either 1. fold the club, making it clear why or 2. fight it. What i would not do is change the club, its aims or charter to appease a minority objection

I have 3 girls, I also have a brother - who would have loved a club that he could do craft and sewing etc. All those kind of clubs were dominated by girls when we were young and any boys that did them were teased for being 'nancies' or weido's, I think giving boys a space to do them and making it 'cool' for boys is a fantastic idea. Yes, men/boys dominate lots of activities and that should be challenged, but giving boys a space to do what are seen as traditionally 'girls' activities should be commended not restricted. If you set up a crafts club it is quickly dominated by girls, this has happened at my daughters school, it's open to both sexes, yet not one boy attends.

YANBU. I think that it's brilliant that you're running this club and I hope that this ridiculous woman and the heavy-handed council don't ruin it for you / the children.

Stick to your guns. Ask parents to write in support of the club and don't be coy about who's causing all this hassle.

YANBU - your club sounds amazing and you are volunteering your time and energy. I hope things work out for you x

But you have 25 boys in your club and this mother wants her son AND daughter to attend the same club. So you would have 26 boys and one girl? And you are worrying that the boys would feel "girly" doing craft activities if there were lots of girls there. But there wouldn't be...

so they have a space to feel comfortable doing the activities, without being the only boy in the room, therefore, feeling like they are the odd one out. They're not going to be the only boy, though, are they, but the lone girl might feel a bit like that?

If Brownies can use the hall, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to as well. It seems like a clear double standard to me.

I only have girls, and I am very pro-girl. But you seem to be doing a good thing for the boys who are under served in your village.

Nope they all do as they choose in fully inclusive groups.

I am a Guide leader. You are perfectly within your rights to do this and there ARE groups for only boys officially, as opposed to just "not having any girls by chance" (I've even come across a few Scout Association groups that are run for boys and parallel for girls - some are Muslim and some are not).

If the council rents any space to Guiding organisations (who have an almost exactly parallel mission - for girls to do things that are either "boyish" or that they would rather do without worrying about what boys are thinking) they can't really complain about your group.

Write a letter back to the Council emphasising that there's a scarcity of clubs which boys can attend as they are all full, and point out that there are clubs running for girls only. Point out that you are running a very successful and popular club which is serving the community by helping to achieve parity between clubs available for girls and clubs available for boys. Point out that unisex clubs are full and how long your ds has been on the waiting list. Ask them what activities they plan to put on in order to ensure that the sexes are both served.

Bishop I was always very happy when my Dad took my little brother off to see a football match....I wanted some girl time, without him sticking his beak in.

I am stunned at the lack of a nod to institutional sexism. Traditional boys/male spaces have been used (yes even scouts) to maintain the hierarchy of gender and as boys turn into adults, to maintain the power and wealth between men - excluding women. The Brownies/Guides/WI are not such organisations. They have allowed spaces for girls and women to gather together but not for "power" reasons - more for support.

There is plenty of evidence that when boys and girls are together, boys dominate. And plenty of evidence that girls gain confidence in female groups.

What type of crafts do you do? I can't imagine many boys being happy making loom bands and other "girly" things the market seems so saturated with.

If you have dedicated volunteers and enough boys there is nothing stopping you contacting the Scout movement to set up a new Beaver/Cub unit.

Since private clubs are exempt, and other single sex ones (incl brownies) are tolerated, what you seem to have is a council jobsworth on a mission - and from bitter experience you might as well expect the sea to part at your command as hope for any common sense from them in this situation. Despite the constant whining, when it comes to a "cause" their staffing, time and money are often almost infinite and they're unlikely to let this go

IME the thing to do is persuade them that there's nothing to see here before they get too excited about "the issue", which might well involve agreeing to take girls but making sure the waiting list is too full to ever allow it to happen

In the meantime you can easily deflect the moaning parent by saying that you'll need extra staff if girls are admitted, and that since she feels so strongly about it you expect her to help. Given that this is probably mostly about her own convenience (childminding?!!) you won't see her for dust ...

Having said that - it doesn't appear that this group the OP is setting up is trying to do any of those things. It seems to be trying to break the gender stereotypes. Although calling things 'girly' may not be the way to go .

I think that if it's acceptable to have girls only activities in what are generally seen as boy activities ie. football then the reverse should be acceptable too!

Another YANBU from me! I have both sons and daughters and if Brownies/Guided/Rainbows can exclude boys so girls can have their own space and group then you should absolutely be able to do the same, it's ridiculous that there is one rule for one and another for another, fight it all the way.

I'd fight this too, and get the parents on board, and point out that a parent complained. My DS was isolated in gymnastics because it was all girls doing the splits and cartwheels, which he couldn't do. Boys who want to do female dominated activities have the same issues as girls. An hour a week in a boy only environment isn't going to turn them into raving misogynists. Not all boys are sporty.

I don't agree with a girls/boys only club at primary level BUT in your case I think it was a good idea and good on you for starting one

I would mention to the council -
Alternative available for that woman to send both children to
The reason you set it up in the first place, girls being included in scouts has led to a lack of spaces.
How long your son has been on the list for scouts without being accepted
Any other groups that happen there that are limited to one group of people (including adult ones like mother and baby, mums and tums, WI)
Girls having brownies as a space of their own but boys not having that option

I would also work out how many children you could have in the group and how many you have now, 25 sounds like a lot as it is so could you even accept any girls in without kicking boys out?

If it goes further then I would discuss it with the boys, tell them you are trying to support them (you don't want them to leave!) and ask for a secret vote on whether they would like to accept girls or not. Present the results to the council, stress that it was a private vote so they weren't influenced by pleasing you or their friends opinions.

At the last stage (assuming the boys voted for remaining boys only) I would get the boys to do some craft for the council asking for their group to be allowed to remain the same. Get local paper along when they are doing it or when you and some of the boys present it to the council

Obviously I hope it doesn't come to that, but those are my thoughts if it continues. I would also gladly write a letter supporting you, and pointing out that you have managed to persuade someone who wouldn't normally agree with it! A bunch of Mumsnet letters could also work in your favour, nobody wants to get on the bad side of MNetters

I see it the opposite actually. That boys want to do this activity that's historically been associated with females and are intimidated when trying it out amongst people who it is 'for' in the exact same way that a little girl wanting to try wrestling for example might be intimidated if she had to join a class with boys but would enthusiastically join a girls class as it is 'for her'

This^ OP, yanbu.

I'd say what you are doing is breaking down gender barriers, not putting them up. As soon as the club becomes co-ed over time I guarantee there would be less and less boys.