My grandson in danger of exclusion for biting

[Angiemm2016]

My grandson is in danger of being excluded for biting other children. His mum is a single parent who works hard to support him and is doing her very best to be a good mum. Although my son and she are no longer together, he does his best to support her and they are good friends - it was a teenage relationship and he is still in uni and she is now in another relationship. We have our grandson every weekend and he is a lovely boy and well behaved - although prone to the odd tantrum. The head has told her that he'd rather lose one child (our gs) than risk losing four pupil premiums which I feel is a very unhelpful thing to say - shouldn't he be seeking the help of other agencies and supporting our gs rather than threatening to expel? Any advice would be great as we're all worried sick - thanks

[honkinghaddock]

And I meant luckily for the child.

[honkinghaddock]

You said a child that bites 10 times in a few weeks is feral. My disabled child did that.

[petitpois55]

Wow!! talk about trying to close down discussion by shouting Disabilism. I can see what people have been talking about before! I'll leave you to it.

I haven't changed my opinion at all . Regards.

[petitpois55]

Dixie You have called me all sorts on here. Water off a ducks back It's a sign of a lost argument though.

[honkinghaddock]

So is my child not a "genuine disabled" child then? Perhaps his paediatrician, speech therapist, OT, school, respite workers etc have all got it wrong?

[sallyhasleftthebuilding]

I don't want my child bitten at school ever - I don't want them to be unhappy to go to school.

It makes no difference to me if the child has a disability or not - my child has the right to be safe and cared for.

The biting child is not my concern - what is my concern is that the school genuinely do all they can to stop this happening -

The 'yeah well he's disabled' argument shows a complete lack of empathy for those being bitten - most parents with disabled children are fully aware of their child's impact on others and tend to apologize and reassure the others they are aware and dealing with it.

[honkinghaddock]

I don't apologise to others because it doesn't happen when I am there. I am not responsible for supervising my child in school. When I am there no one gets bitten.

[bumsexatthebingo]

The problem is that so many specialist schools have been closed that can deal with this kind of behaviour. Mainstream schools are now expected to take on children with all manner of additional needs yet the teachers often have very little training to cope with them, support staff are few and far between and resources for external support are limited. What is supposed to be inclusion actually ends up with children with Sen being isolated as they are excluded internally or externally, sat away from other children, kept in a break times as there are no staff available to support them and other children avoid them because there is no-one to help them behave in a socially acceptable way. Inclusive schooling could work if it was properly funded but just putting kids with additional needs in mainstream to save money isn't fair on the Sen children or the other children in the class who have to suffer if they have behavioural issues.

[bumsexatthebingo]

And lol to whoever suggested that parents of disabled children should offer to go and work in schools as unpaid support staff.

[derxa]

The problem is that so many specialist schools have been closed that can deal with this kind of behaviour. Mainstream schools are now expected to take on children with all manner of additional needs yet the teachers often have very little training to cope with them, support staff are few and far between and resources for external support are limited. What is supposed to be inclusion actually ends up with children with Sen being isolated as they are excluded internally or externally, sat away from other children, kept in a break times as there are no staff available to support them and other children avoid them because there is no-one to help them behave in a socially acceptable way. Inclusive schooling could work if it was properly funded but just putting kids with additional needs in mainstream to save money isn't fair on the Sen children or the other children in the class who have to suffer if they have behavioural issues.
You're absolutely right.
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8009504/Baroness-Mary-Warnock-The-cynical-betrayal-of-my-special-needs-children.html
Inclusion needs a lot of money but in practice it often all falls down to the class teacher and TA coping with children they are not trained to teach. The education of many children is severely compromised by poor behaviour by SEND pupils who cannot cope in a mainstream classroom.

[honkinghaddock]

My son was distressed by the (normal) behaviour of pupils without sn and the environment that had been created to suit them. His biting was due to the noise and over stimulation and his 1:1 being used for other pupils.

[CodyKing]

I don't apologise to others because it doesn't happen when I am there.

shocking -

[bumsexatthebingo]

Tbf I wouldn't think a parent was responsible for controlling her child when they weren't with them. I wouldn't want an apology off the teacher either. I'd want to know what they were doing to prevent it happening again.

[CodyKing]

I'd want to know what they were doing to prevent it happening again

That goes for both school and parent

If my children misbehave at school I'd be doing something about it at home

It's about working together to support that child

He has to be in that class with the others for the next 7 years - unless you acknowledge and step up he will be isolated - the parents will wonder why he's not invited to parties - because they won't trust the parents to deal with it.

[Floggingmolly]

AGenie Suggesting the child could be biting his peers to show dominance because he's brighter than they are (based on one of his parents being at university??) is the most ridiculous post on the thread.
Where does your theory stand if the bitee's parents are third level educated also?

[honkinghaddock]

Why is that shocking? My son has full time 1:1. He shouldn't have been able to get in the position of biting others. He doesn't when I am looking after him.

[bumsexatthebingo]

My kids have been hit a few times at school. Once quite seriously with a wooden plank. Usually by children with no sen afaia. I have dealt with it with the school and they have worked with the parents.

[petitpois55]

There was a child like this in my DN's class few years back (not a biter just very aggressive and badly behaved) This started in Reception. By year 1, he was not invited to any parties, or included in Summer holiday stuff that parents used to organise.
He was a mean spirited child who would slyly kick other children then blame someone else. He was excluded in year 4 (why it took that long i'll never now)

The kids without exception were glad to see the back of him, as were the other parents.
He's now in a PRU, as is his younger sister.

[honkinghaddock]

He is not at the development level where I can bring up what happened at school. He barely understands speech.

[honkinghaddock]

My sons mainstream school didn't want to work with parents. He is now in a special school that understands the importance of it.

[BishopBrennansArse]

It's all very well if the child has the communication and learning capacity for it to be dealt with at home. Many don't.

Therefore dealing with the situation when it happens, intervention and prevention is much more appropriate for both biter and bitten. A later sanction at home requires a higher level of social communication skill than some children actually have.

I will always support the school as far as possible with any behavioural concern. Being as I'm not actually there to troubleshoot, intervene and deal with the situation live that often means implementing social stories and supporting school in applying for additional resources from the local authority to manage the situation. I'll also give advice to staff as needed.

Properly managing the situation is far better for the op' grandson and the bitten children than making threats and trying to force the parents to 'do something' when they're not actually present.

[biggles50]

Seek the expertise of a behaviour therapist. Someone I know is doing just that this week. Changing the behaviour of a child who bites other children at school.

[rumbelina]

I worked with a child who bit, about 20 years ago. He was 4ish, had delayed speech and I'm not exactly sure about his home life but his mum had quite severe MH problems and was struggling to cope with his difficulties and behaviour.

She was attending a course to do with her own problems and I was enlisted to help out at the creche by focusing on the child because as soon as the creche-worker's back was turned he would bite one of the other children, on the face or arm.

I literally watched him like a hawk but also played games with him, or with him and the other children, got him to run about a lot as he had energy to burn and this really helped his mum when she took him home. Some of the other parents had been understandably upset that their kids were getting bitten and some did say bite/punch/kick back but we didn't allow this. I came in a couple of weeks into the course.

It may seem unfair that he got 1-1 treatment but the other kids were fine with that, I tired him out, built up some trust. We were playing one day and he accidentally kicked me in the chin. I asked him to kiss it better and the creche-worker said "He'll bite you!" which REALLY annoyed me - he didn't and he didn't bite any of the other kids while he was getting the attention, he didn't even try.

I don't have any in depth analysis of any of this (and am not relating it to your GS, OP) but he was a lovely boy and I really felt for him as he obviously had particular needs and issues with development, home life etc and really bloomed with some positive interaction. It still upsets me to see small children described as 'feral' or 'animals' (not here, elsewhere). I do have a child of my own and he has been bitten and bitten himself - it needs addressing but ALL kids' wellbeing is important including that of the 'biter'.