My grandson in danger of exclusion for biting

[Angiemm2016]

My grandson is in danger of being excluded for biting other children. His mum is a single parent who works hard to support him and is doing her very best to be a good mum. Although my son and she are no longer together, he does his best to support her and they are good friends - it was a teenage relationship and he is still in uni and she is now in another relationship. We have our grandson every weekend and he is a lovely boy and well behaved - although prone to the odd tantrum. The head has told her that he'd rather lose one child (our gs) than risk losing four pupil premiums which I feel is a very unhelpful thing to say - shouldn't he be seeking the help of other agencies and supporting our gs rather than threatening to expel? Any advice would be great as we're all worried sick - thanks

[AGenie]

If Dad is away at University, is it possible that the boy is very bright and just trying to subjugate the other kids? Little boys can have very strong urges to dominate at this age.

My ds got very keen on fighting in reception and I worked with him every day after school with lego figures doing role play to ex

[AGenie]

... to explain why fighting was wrong. We even built a lego court and used lego police officers to arrest criminals. He gradually caught on to the idea that he mustn't fight and he is very good indeed now. When other kids attack him these days he just gently picks them up, turns them sideways and lays them down on the ground.

Perhaps you could try some lego role play with your dgs? It can be especially helpful with a little boy whose language is not very well developed yet, as he can show you things rather than having to tell you.

My son did the most amazing impression of police brutality during arrest when I first started working with him, and it clarified the problem no end.

[ohtheholidays]

I used to teach OP and the one thing that the nurserys I worked in wouldn't except was biting,I know of a Nursery that did expel a child for biting and he wasn't quite 4 then.

I would try and help you grandsons Mum to access some help for your grandson,biting in schools is seen as a very anti social act,they generally expect children to have stopped biting by the time they're 3 years old.

If he's been biting other people for along time and it hasn't been stopped then it could be a habit that's going to be hard to stop.
But it can be stopped,his Mum can speak to her HV or her GP for advice and support,she really needs to speak to someone this week because the threat of your grandson being made to leave the nursery after only 4 weeks is very serious.

[JOEYDOESNTSHAREFOOD]

Is he absolutely, definitely doing it? Have adults seen him do it? Does he admit it? I ask because DD1 was excluded for biting several times in reception, despite never doing it before and vehemently denying she'd done it.

In the end, it came out that the other children were biting amongst themselves and blaming my daughter - this was caught on cctv. I know it's very unlikely to be the same thing for you but just wanted to check.

[CodyKing]

the other children were biting amongst themselves and blaming my daughter - this was caught on cctv

You know there are always parents on here saying children aren't manipulative and won't believe they can be - because they are only X years old

This is a really good example of them doing this - shocking they all joined in.

At least your DD exclusion brought there behavior to light

We're they excluded? Did you get an apology?

[OneInEight]

First, I think your dd should acknowledge to school that she knows this is unacceptable behaviour and can not be allowed to continue.

She then needs to ask school for their help in solving the issue. This might mean school monitoring the situation to work out triggers, it might mean them providing extra TA support at problem times, it might mean them trying to reduce sensory overload, it might mean them doing social stories with your dgs to teach him biting is not acceptable. It might mean that they refer your dgs to external agencies CAMHS, SALT, community peadiatrician etc to see if there is an underlying cause for the behaviour such as sensory overload.

I seriously doubt exclusions will solve the problem. In my experience if the child has challenging behaviour because of a SEN they can make matters worse. Not least because often if a child finds the classroom overwhelming and bites as a consequence then they are going to perceive the quiet of home as a reward rather than a sanction. For a child as young as this rewards / sanctions need to be much more immediate so they can link the behaviour to the consequence.

On the other hand with a HT with this attitude your dgs may well be far better off in another school and I would perhaps start looking around to see if there are more inclusive schools in the vicinity.

[lougle]

Are they doing an ABC log? A: antecedents (what happened before the bite) B: Behaviour (what he did, including whether he seemed to 'pick his victim' or just randomly bite the person nearest to him) C: Consequence (what happened as a result, and what his reaction to it was).

[bumsexatthebingo]

To the people suggesting the op just tell him not to bite - I'm sure the teachers and the op hadn't thought of that
From what you have said about the head op it doesn't sound as though he is thinking about exclusion so that he can put support in place for your gs. He wants his mum to take him out of the school so it is no longer his problem. But it will still be a problem in another school with other kids. Push for the referrals, ask what strategies are in place (I would imagine none other than telling him it's not nice to bite).
If it is particularly when his friends play with other friends some role playing might help (I'm assuming he is biting the child he feels has 'taken' his friend). Get him to think of better choices he could make when that happens. Could he ask to play with them? What should he do if they say no? Could he find another friend to play with? Ask a teacher for help? Practise the different scenarios so he can see the outcomes and do it regularly. Ask what people will think about him if he makes a good choice and ask what people will think when he bites.
AND please don't bite your gs or suggest his mum and dad do it so he knows how it feels. Not only would that be cruel (and possibly land you an as referral) if he is annoyed with another child he may well want to hurt them in that moment so I doubt it would even be effective. Helping him with different strategies to use when he feels like biting should really help him. Kids generally want to do the right thing some just need a little more help.

[bumsexatthebingo]

Oh and whoever asked 'pupil premiums' are children who attract extra funding to the school because they would have qualified for free school meals before they were universal. So 4 of these kids parents have either threatened to pull their kids out of school because of the biting or he feels they might so the head has told the mother he would sooner throw her child under the bus than lose out on 4 lots of funding. Sounds like a nice chap eh?
I agree with a pp that this school is unlikely to be the best at helping kids with additional needs but few are and I don't see why parents of kids with Sen should be bullied into moving their child so schools don't have to bother their arses doing their job. I would go down the pushing for referrals route and formal complaints if they refuse support. Tends to get things sorted ime.

[strawberrypenguin]

At 4 that's terrible behaviour. 10 times in a couple of weeks is a lot. Really not surprised school are threatening expulsion. If it was my son he was biting I'd be demanding the school do something to stop it. The other kids in his class deserve not to be attacked by your grandson. What do you want them to do let him keep biting other kids until he scars one for life?
If you are serious about stopping him biting sounds like you need an urgent meeting with the school to see if they can offer any other solutions.

[deadringer]

Sorry i have no advice i just came on to say that biting in young children is really, really difficult to prevent. I used to mind two little girls and one of them bit the other several times. It happened so quickly i couldn't stop it. It got to the stage where i had to sit between them and even then they managed to get a quick one in. It was exhausting and upsetting and in the end i gave up looking after them. I was very vigilant and if i couldn't prevent it happening with only had two children in my care, there is no way a teacher would be able to deal with it with 20 to 30 kids in her care.

[petitpois55]

He sounds quite fereal to be honest! I'm not surprised he's being threatened with exclusion. 10 incidents of biting in a few weeks.
If i was a parent of one of the children bitten, i would be furious.

[SuburbanRhonda]

Like paul, I am shocked at the thought of a HT effectively identifying children who are eligible for pupil premium by making that comment.

However, biting a child in the face is just awful, OP. What help have the child's parents sought to address the behaviour? A GP visit as a first step is absolutely essential. If his parents can attend together, armed with a list of incidents from the school and stress that he is at risk of permanent exclusion, that would be helpful.

[petitpois55]

Feral even.

[SuburbanRhonda]

there's no way a GP is going to do much

Not true - a GP can make a referral for a paediatric assessment. In our area there's quite a wait, but it's a good first step to rule out any health reasons for the behaviour while parents and school work together to manage the behaviour and keeping ALL the children safe. School can also refer to the Ed Psych but again, in our area there's a wait for that due to a shortage of EPs.

[Wantagoodname]

petit he's not feral he's a 4 year old child!
Your dil needs to meet with school and Senco asap and they need to put a behavioural plan in place.
She should ask for referral to SALT and ed psych to see if there are any underlying issues.

I have a nearly 8 year old who is a biter- luckily not at school. She has problems and struggles to control her emotions. We talk about the incidents when she is calm and she is punished but still No improvement. Good luck op!

[petitpois55]

He's biting other children. He sounds feral to me! I would have made a complaint to the school if my child had have been bitten by him. i f they didn't do anything, and it happened again, i could contact the Education Authority.

[Wantagoodname]

How old is your child petit??

[RedSauceAndJellyJuice]

Can I just ask , is the biting happening at the same times ?
Has that been monitored ?

[petitpois55]

She's 16 WantWhy is that even relevant?

[MrsJoeyMaynard]

He's 4 years old, petit.

Most 4 yr olds have grown out of biting, yes, but it's still young, and it's worthwhile trying to figure out why he's biting, and trying strategies to help him overcome this, before labelling him as feral and kicking him out.

[Cheby]

My LO has been bitten at nursery, once when they were 15 months old which I can understand as the baby was too young to know better, but also once when she was 3. The same child kicked her in the chest as well. Nursery have done an excellent job at protecting her since and working with the violent child (who has also been violent to other kids, I checked DD had done nothing to provoke it).

I know we are supposed to be understanding etc but my first instinct is to protect my child from danger. And if nursery hadn't been so good about it I would have either demanded the violent child was removed or taken my child out of the setting.

The kids who have been assaulted have to be the priority here, so I'm with the headteacher and I can understand why they would want to remove him.

Even if SN was diagnosed, he still can't be allowed to continue hurting other kids. So the solution would be to make sure he had 1:1 shadowing or to remove him from the setting. The other children have to be kept safe.

[petitpois55]

Four year olds aren't feral Ah bless your innocence

[NerrSnerr]

How involved is your son in all this OP? I think he needs to come and go to school with the boy's mum and talk through what they can do.