To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

[Swanlaked]

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

Thanks Yawn - that's really helpful. I don't know if I've had measles or mumps. Pretty sure I had the rubella vaccine at school. Need to check with DM.

That makes sense about the MS immune system though.

Bishop we would say you should get a medical exemption. Your reason is not bullshit woo.

Haven't RTFT, sorry, but YANBU, stuff like this makes my blood boil.

In Oz there was much chat about banning unvaccinated kids from school IIRC and it didn't go through in the end. Individual states decide on childcare vax requirement policy and I there has always been some pressure (I certainly had to provide my son's certificates for both childcare and reception start). It became a very hot issue again in the Sydney area around July 2015-ish as there was a massive whooping cough outbreak widely attributed to a decline in vaccinating...stuff can go downhill very rapidly when these attitudes spread.

As of January 2016, I understand there is a "no jabs, no pay" policy, which basically means that unless there are authorized medical reasons why it is unsafe to do so, if parents don't want to participate in vaccinating kids to protect the herd, they are banned from coming to that same "herd" (aka the taxpayer) to get all the financial benefits from them that they used to.

Basically, hitting them where it hurts.

www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/immunisation-related-payments-for-parents

Where do pro vaxxers stand with kids like my DD who collapsed and almost died from her 8 week immunisations?

I think that your DD shouldn't have any more vaccinations, in case she has another bad reaction. All other kids, who don't have a medical reason not to get vaccinated, should have vaccines - so that heard immunity protects people like your DD.

This happened at my DCs old school. My best friend was that mother, as were a couple of the other mothers. I told two of them that was a new low. Ironically two of them feed their children with utter shite, that has more poison than any vaccine. We are still speaking and thankfully the child in question is now in remission.

Not everyone sees things the same way. No I don't think the unvaccinated child should be removed though. That thought never occured to me.

Where do pro vaxxers stand with kids like my DD who collapsed and almost died from her 8 week immunisations?

In my opinion that would come under the "medical reason not to be vaccinated" umbrella. But also I guess important for your DD that others are vaccinated to protect her with herd immunity.

I am very much in agreement - no jabs, no school.

I know it is awful thing to suggest with segregation but the child can have friends over to who her parents can trust and keep the daughter safe.

Where do pro vaxxers stand with kids like my DD who collapsed and almost died from her 8 week immunisations?

This is a genuine medical reason. Your DD should be protected through herd immunity by every one who can have them having them. but of course you know she isn't if others choose not to.

In Australia it is "No Vax, No Pay" - you are set to lose a substantial amount of your benefits if you are not up to speed with the schedule.

However, it still means that wealthy families, who don't rely on, or, need, child benefits have no incentive to vaccinate their children. Personally, with the Australian situation I feel it should be "all or none", not a case of "you get a choice if you are wealthy".

Anti-vaxxers are selfish knobheads of the highest order IMO.
We should definitely adopt the "no vaccines, no state school" rules. Just because certain parents are convinced that the BigPharma/the government are out to poison their precious little snowflakes with dodgy vaccines, that does not mean the rest of the school population, should be put at risk!
And the poor kid mentioned in your OP! School is probably one of the small pieces of normality he still has in his life, what with his illness and treatments! How dare someone be so selfish as to make it a potentially dangerous place for him to be, all because of their completely irrational anti-vaccine stance Dickheads.

I've never knowingly had chicken pox but apparently I'm immune. I still go out of my way to avoid anyone with it though just in case.

Someone further up thread mentioned vaccinations being a contract with society (or something like that) - does that extend to adults with things like the flu Jab? I'm just being curious as I've never had the flu Jab (and probably never will).

On the original subject, the other parent is very unreasonable. However I don't agree with a PP who said they are cross that parents are allowed to choose. Yes the consequences are horrific, but do we really want to go down the route of compulsory vaccination by the state?

Where do pro vaxxers stand with kids like my DD who collapsed and almost died from her 8 week immunisations?

Some children can't be vaccinated and some children do not become immune, even with vaccination.

This is why 'herd immunity' is important. Once the numbers of children who are vaccinated reach a certain point, there are not enough people in contact for the disease to circulate around the general population. This protects those who cannot be immune.

If everyone who can have the vaccine does have it, then eventually the disease (or at least that strain of the disease) may die out, like smallpox.

When you're so determined to stick to your opinions that you're prepared to risk the life of a child with cancer, it's time to admit that you're an absolute cunt. Anti vaxxers piss me off anyway, but this is so wrong I don't know where to start. Don't vaccinate, fine, that's your right, but it's everyone else's right not to be put at risk by whatever your kids are carrying. Therefore keep them out of mainstream society, since you're so keen on doing things your way.

I had chicken pox as an adult, it was fucking awful.

My immune system is perfectly fine but it hit me like a tonne of bricks.

I would never want to put anyone, especially mine or anyone else's child through something like measles which I know is much worse and can be fatal.

I'm sorry but i don't understand how anyone could be prepared to stand by and watch their child get that poorly through something preventable.

How fucking guilty would you feel if your child got measles and got seriously ill? Or if the poor child in the op got passed your child's illness and their condition seriously deteriorated?

I would not be able to live with myself. I agree all children who attend school should have to be vaccinated, if you don't agree with it homeschool (unless medical reasons)

I know this is a subject/debate that crops up regularly, but I am always disappointed to read of people who think vaccines exist to make companies money. Perhaps because they are largely effective it means that people have forgotten how deadly these childhood diseases can be.

Chickenpox is particularly treacherous because you can be infectious without knowing it, and spread it unwittingly. The vaccine that exists for it is not given freely, though. It is a threat to the immuno-compromised.

There was a measles outbreak here a couple of years ago too. Yes there will always be children who cannot be vaccinated for a genuine medical reason or who have lost their immunity due to medical treatment and I really hope that the herd protection does the job for them. But to see childhood diseases that have been almost eradicated come back in large numbers when it is entirely preventable is grim.

I talked about having a jab as part of your contract with society. No, I don't think otherwise medically robust people should have the flu jab unless they want it. I get the flu jab because I have MS. I don't think this gives me zero risk of flu but it is not a live vaccine and can't hurt me that way.
I spend most of winter in fear of the norovirus, against which I understand there is no jab. I got it two years on the trot (pardon pun) and it was a nightmare with MS as well.

I disagree strongly with the no-vax no school policy. I have a child who reacted badly to a vaccination and as a result I had to make the decision to give further vaccinations or not. Some I went for and others I opted out of. Our paediatrician was fine with it.

I would have thought that an immunosuppressed (rather than an immuno-compromised) person could not leave the hospital, let alone go to school? My understanding is that a common cold could kill them?

franincisco medical exemptions from vaccinations has been discussed up thread a bit, and the general consensus seems to be that in that instance it's fair enough not to have them and attend school, herd immunity will cover that. Parents whose kids are medically exempt aren't anti vaxxers, they're responsible parents. Ones choosing not to to make a point however......

Sorry Yawn, I'm on my tablet and couldn't copy and paste and had forgotten by the time I got to the last page!

Thanks for your reply, I'm genuinely interested in how people think. My Dad had MS and one year I gave him Noro. Obviously I would have stayed out of the way but I realised too late. I felt awful for making him so ill.

First of all it's not a personal choice issue: you shouldn't be entitled to make choices which pose a significant risk to the health of others.

Hypothetical: I'd like to drive my potentially unsafe car today but the powers that be consider that to present an unreasonable risk to others, so they do not allow it unless my car can pass an MOT.

I don't know what the threshold for "unacceptable risk to others" is, or indeed what the exact risk statistics are regarding unvaccinated children and the immunocompromised, but I suspect it's sufficient to say "no vax, no school place".

...except, as others have said, where there is a medical reason. In that case there are risks to a child in either case; one child who could come to harm by being vaccinated and one who could come to harm if they aren't. In that case I think you'd just inform the parents and let them choose if any of the risks are unacceptable; the immunocompromised child may not want to take the risk of being at that school, which is reasonable, as of course it would be for the unvaccinated child not to risk vaccination.

YADNBU.

I hope the kid recovers and doesn't suffer because her classmate's parents are assholes.

Vaccines should be compulsory for state schools.
Don't want to vaccinate? Fine, find the money and send your kids to a school with all the other fruit loop kids.
Herd immunity is critical to protect those in society who can't be vaccinated.

Fran- your child would not be required to have a vaccination if it made them poorly. You would clearly be exempt from such a requirement. It is the "woo/conspiracy theory " merchants who should not expect a tax-payer funded education if they are not prepared to help protect the herd through vaccination. Your child, like me, should be able to rely on the herd for protection.

Yawn that's part of my issue with the LaLa land that anti-vaxxers live in - they've lived through a time where hugely dangerous diseases are no longer a common occurrence because of herd immunity, so downplay the seriousness of those illnesses. My grandmother had a baby brother who only survived for a matter of weeks after he was born because he got whooping cough back in the days before a vaccine was available. And I remember my grandad telling me about all the kids from his little village primary school who got Polio

But to see childhood diseases that have been almost eradicated come back in large numbers when it is entirely preventable is grim.

I think the vaccine in theory prevents the disease but it is not 100%?

My dd had the whooping cough vaccine and she contracted whooping cough. SO to say it is entirely preventable isn't true. There are new strains of bacterium/virii that are not covered by vaccination.