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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

999 replies

Swanlaked · 26/09/2016 12:31

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

OP posts:
LooseSeal · 26/09/2016 13:09

It's unfair for a child to be forced out of a school because of a choice their parent(s) have made, but that unfairness doesn't compare to a child losing their life. This a a case where the ill child's needs massively trump the unvaccinated children's parents beliefs.

Swanlaked · 26/09/2016 13:10

Parent in question is immune to advice or pressure. Not sure if this is true as I heard it on the grapevine but she emailed the mum of the cancer child with a load of links about cutting out sugar to cure cancer and some shit about alkalinity and cancer. How the mum hasn't knocked her out I don't know!

OP posts:
Littleredhouse · 26/09/2016 13:10

Yanbu. It makes me very angry how some people can be so selfish and blinkered in their views. I'm another that really wishes we would follow countries that don't allow unvaccinated children into schools.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 26/09/2016 13:10

I also haven't had my BCG, or even the flower test thingy

They withdrew this because blanket vaccination wasn't as cost effective given the no of cases every year (under 7k) Its only offered to at risk groups instead.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pages/bcg-tb-vaccine-questions-answers.aspx

TwigletsMakeMeViolent · 26/09/2016 13:10

Beyond selfish. Yanbu.

endofthelinefinally · 26/09/2016 13:11

furryminkymoo
The ill child is immunosuppressed - presumably on chemotherapy for cancer. The child's immune system is therefore not working - the child does not have any immunity against infectious disease - regardless of what vaccinations they might have had before becoming ill with cancer.
Therefore the child is likely to be completely overwhelmed and die from any passing childhood communicable disease. That could be any virus from a cold to the usual things that children are vaccinated against.

QuimReaper · 26/09/2016 13:11

Another derail here, sorry:

When I was about 5 the Pox was going around the neighbourhood and I got a very mild rash but no fever or actually feeling ill (as far as I remember - I certainly wasn't bedridden or anything though). I've always wondered if that counts as having had it, from an antibodies / immunity perspective?

2kids2dogsnosense · 26/09/2016 13:12

Wolfe*

I agree - people think measles's "just a few spots". It isn't. It's a KILLER! And those people who survive are often left blind, deaf or brain-damaged. Same with many other "childhood" illnesses. Because we see them so rarely these days, we have no idea how devastating and dangerous they are.

And how bloody lucky we are to live in a country which has all but eradicated them the population due to our WONDERFUL NHS!

And you anti-vaccinators - YOUR precious child is pretty safe because OUR precious children have been vaccinated, you selfish twats!

Yawnyawnallday · 26/09/2016 13:12

HHH3 - I have never had measles- although I have had mumps. I had a rubella shot as a teenager. I was told that if I have the MMR jab now (to protect against measles) my body will react negatively- relapse likely. It is a live virus that my system would struggle to deal with. Or I take my chances without it and hope that I don't get it from the community.
MS immune system is busy fighting off the imaginary stuff it is fighting in the nervous system. It struggles to cope with fighting an actual threat.

Littlemisspanda · 26/09/2016 13:12

There is a chicken pox vaccine but it is not given as part of UK vaccination programme. Think it is given in the US.

QuimReaper · 26/09/2016 13:13

I hadn't heard that, thanks Twatbadger (love the name Grin )

I won't worry about getting caught up on it then.

petitpois55 · 26/09/2016 13:14

Unvacced children should not be allowed to start school. It happens in other countries. It should happen here, but the forces that be are too namby pamby for that ever to happen!

QuimReaper · 26/09/2016 13:15

When I had my MMR vaccine a few months ago I got the most spectacular itchy hivey rash all over my bum. I took a photo of it because I couldn't see it properly in the mirror and accidentally nearly put it on Instagram Blush

WyfOfBathe · 26/09/2016 13:15

I'm definitely pro-vaxx, but I would say I disagree with stopping unvaccinated kids going to school, because at school they can be taught proper science and will hopefully then choose to get their kids vaccinated (if they have them in the future) and maybe get themselves vaccinated as an adult.

I had a friend at school who never had any jabs as a baby/child but took herself to get vaccinations once she was 18, because she understood the need for herd immunity & needed to have vaccines anyway before she could study a medicine degree.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 26/09/2016 13:16

yep quim no need to worry about the BCG. My immunity has probably 'run out' as its only effective for 15 years according to the NHS.

EveOnline2016 · 26/09/2016 13:16

www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Yourchildatschool/Pages/Illness.aspx

I would do everything possible to minimise the risk of my children passing on germs. But you have to balance that against what the government expects.

Minor coughs and cold in my DC school wouldn't be an authorised absence. If your child attendance drops below a certain level EWO gets involved and you can be taken to court.

I think in a way the child with cancer should be home educated with the lea paying for a private tutor. That way the child is protected.

Yawnyawnallday · 26/09/2016 13:16

If the parent in question emailed me with bullshit about cutting out sugar to cure something, I would try and get a restraining order against them.
I may also think about whether I could get away with putting a brick through their window but it wouldn't achieve anything.

GummyGoddess · 26/09/2016 13:18

akdmummy
I totally agree from a moral perspective. I know that the MMR vaccine is routinely offered on NHS when they are babies but if not taken then do people have to pay to get the vaccine later?

No, I never had the MMR or individual components due to being born one year too early for the mass vaccinations but my university insisted that all students be vaccinated before attending. I just made an appointment at the GP and they did that and gave me a Tetanus one at the same time, I didn't have to pay. Very glad I did as there was an outbreak of mumps just after freshers week.

WhooooAmI24601 · 26/09/2016 13:21

I'm in favour of bringing in a no-vaccine-no-school-place system in the UK (with the exception of medical causes). A friend I know had 5 DCs and had always been very anti-vaccine and posts stuff re Big Pharma on Facebook at least once a week. She had friends who'd agree and to see their comments and memes on Facebook was terrifying; they fed one another's fears which resulted in that awful cycle of more new parents being too afraid to vaccinate.

Early last year her 5 year old and newborn both caught whooping cough. She'd refused the pregnancy whooping cough vaccine and refused the newborn ones, too. Her youngest lost his life at just 7 weeks of age. It's nothing, it's not even two months. And for what? Her 5 year old had pneumonia as a side-effect, is still incredibly unwell and could potentially have life-long complications. All for the sake of a vaccine. It makes me very, very cross that parents are allowed to choose when the consequences can be so severe.

leedy · 26/09/2016 13:23

"When I was about 5 the Pox was going around the neighbourhood and I got a very mild rash but no fever or actually feeling ill (as far as I remember - I certainly wasn't bedridden or anything though). I've always wondered if that counts as having had it, from an antibodies / immunity perspective?"

If you've been pregnant they'll have it on your records, it's one of the immunities they check for when they do your bloods (along with rubella and possibly some other things) as it can be dangerous in pregnancy.

I have never knowingly had chicken pox but I have full varicella immunity. I kind of guessed this due to living in the same house as several people with chicken pox and not getting it, but it was confirmed when I was pregnant. Must have had an incredibly mild case with no symptoms.

BishopBrennansArse · 26/09/2016 13:24

Where do pro vaxxers stand with kids like my DD who collapsed and almost died from her 8 week immunisations?

(Other 2 kids fully vaxxed)

CaveMum · 26/09/2016 13:25

Everyone should read this, written by Roald Dahl whose daughter Olivia died from Measles in 1962.

Roald Dahl on Olivia, writing in 1986:

"MEASLES: A dangerous illness.

Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn't do anything.

'Are you feeling all right?' I asked her.

'I feel all sleepy,' she said.

In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.

On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles. I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.

It is not yet generally accepted that measles can be a dangerous illness. Believe me, it is. In my opinion parents who now refuse to have their children immunised are putting the lives of those children at risk. In America, where measles immunisation is compulsory, measles like smallpox, has been virtually wiped out.

Here in Britain, because so many parents refuse, either out of obstinacy or ignorance or fear, to allow their children to be immunised, we still have a hundred thousand cases of measles every year. Out of those, more than 10,000 will suffer side effects of one kind or another. At least 10,000 will develop ear or chest infections. About 20 will die.

LET THAT SINK IN.

Every year around 20 children will die in Britain from measles.

So what about the risks that your children will run from being immunised?

They are almost non-existent. Listen to this. In a district of around 300,000 people, there will be only one child every 250 years who will develop serious side effects from measles immunisation! That is about a million to one chance. I should think there would be more chance of your child choking to death on a chocolate bar than of becoming seriously ill from a measles immunisation.

So what on earth are you worrying about? It really is almost a crime to allow your child to go unimmunised.

The ideal time to have it done is at 13 months, but it is never too late. All school-children who have not yet had a measles immunisation should beg their parents to arrange for them to have one as soon as possible.

Incidentally, I dedicated two of my books to Olivia, the first was James and the Giant Peach. That was when she was still alive. The second was The BFG, dedicated to her memory after she had died from measles. You will see her name at the beginning of each of these books. And I know how happy she would be if only she could know that her death had helped to save a good deal of illness and death among other children."

WomanWithAltitude · 26/09/2016 13:27

Implementing a 'no vacs no school' rule just punishes the child though. Do you really think that conspiracy theorist parents will provide good home education.

I was one of the unvaccinated kids because my mum was a conspiracy theorist. It went hand in hand with a whole load of other medical neglect issues (we weren't allowed to see a doctor even when seriously ill etc.). As an adult I strongly disagree with what she did, and it wasn't my choice.

Stopping me from going to school would have fucked my life up, not my mum's.

Yawnyawnallday · 26/09/2016 13:27

I survived whooping cough as a newborn in the 60s. There were no vaccinations to prevent it back then. To hear my otherwise tough as old boots mother talk about it is heartbreaking. And she rarely talks about it because it is too distressing.

motherinferior · 26/09/2016 13:27

Eve, I think the idea of segregating a child with cancer is dreadful. Why should they be cut off from their friends, from the playground, from their normal life? And their parents - who are already under appalling strain - having to give up work to supervise HE?