To think my husband would earn a salary during a PhD?

[Badgoushk]

My husband is thinking about doing a PhD. He did a masters recently and got a high distinction so I don't think he'd have trouble getting accepted. But the question is can we afford it? Would he get paid? Did you get paid during your PhD? How much please? It would be in Energy/Climate change and it would likely be in London. Thanks.

Thanks, LRD. This is me in a less rotten phase though - in other phases, all I could manage would be a strangled moan.

Ouch! I remember the strangled moans. It did get better, honest!

user - what you describe is very much the pattern in my DH's department. A lot of the successful male academics (who dominate to a noticeable degree) have wives at home looking after the kids. This is a totally sensible choice for them as families in most cases, from a financial perspective (and I am absolutely not criticising these very smart women for having decided to do things this way, it is their choice) - but it is really, really not great for the careers of the women concerned. I do think the single most progressive thing most universities could do is to put in place free childcare for academic staff, because in most cases it is the cost of childcare that makes this a rational decision. I am sick of 'awareness' initiatives and other such things (Athena Swan) when some brute, practical help like a fullly-funded childcare service would be so much more effective.

I feel for you having to make these compromises, it does not sound easy. I hear your frustration at the geography too - I am not especially fond of the city where I am and I would like to move but DH is very anchored (more senior than me by a long way). It sounds like you need at least some part of this bargain that is more 'for you', if you see what I mean.

biblio - hang in there. The tough moments are awful. I take my hat off to anyone who does a PhD while working lots of hours, you guys are amazing.

user - no, you didn't come over that way at all. Just realistic and a little frustrated with the system rather than him personally. I do think it sounds as though you're having to compensate a lot, but I don't mean that as a criticism of him personally. Sometimes these things can creep up without anyone intending it.

Statistically, as I understand it, being married with children helps men in their careers, as well as disadvantaging women. This is also, I believe, true in academia.

User, I totally see where you're coming from and I'd say the impact on spouse and family is also huge when doing the PhD itself. That was one of the things that killed me about it, during the excruciating last six months of write up, my DP suffered right along with me.

What gets me the most is the expectation that you'd give up so much, put your family through so much, for what is in the end very little reward nowadays.

Oh and to answer a comment upthread, I regret doing the PhD. It held me back 4 years, was expensive (although I was funded) and it took its toil on my relationship with my partner.

I don't get a big kick out of being called Dr now (I never really use it, feel like a tit), which is probably a shame.

biblio - fling away!

It's hard, isn't it? It felt like quite a lonely process, I only really went into the department for occasional meetings with my supervisor so I felt very separate from the full-time PhDs who all had different concerns from me anyway.

The good thing about it was that when things were difficult at work, I always felt as though as I had a meaningful project away from work which was 'mine' and which I could take solace in. I miss that a bit now to be honest but I am concentrating now on publications - that's my solace these days!

How far away from submitting are you?

Thanks Guitar (and shove and LRD).

I have one more year to do before I enter the writing up phase. I've had very little support from my supervisors - they appear to be annoyed when occasionally reminded of my existence. They encouraged me to take a yearlong break in the middle of last year (this was a good idea although they didn't handle it well, springing it on me without any warning) and it's only when I approached them about returning that I found out one of the supervisors would be away for a further six months, the other wasn't able/willing to supervise me alone (his advice to date has been a reminder to paginate), and no effort would be made to find me an alternative, so my 12-month break is turning into an 18-month break.

It's not awful, as I'm aiming to be fairly well-advanced with the writing up by the time I return, but their communication has been awful.

Sorry OP, not meaning to derail, just having a little wallow.

The supervisor situation sounds a bit rubbish biblio. Do you have a postgrad rep you could go and talk to? Or is there a general postgrad tutor? That was the first port of call I believe for anyone having issues with their supervisor in the department where I was based.

biblio that's really irresponsible of them to just leave you like that: I know it's easier said than done but I think you should talk to the graduate tutor (or similar) at your institution about it, not least so there's a paper trail if it causes any future problems (which I hope it doesn't!). One thing I really, really didn't realise when I was doing my PhD is that your supervisor isn't doing you some massive favour by being your supervisor. Having PhD students is good for their own academic profile and it is also (at least in my institution) calculated as part of their workload, so it counts as 'time off' undergrad and MA teaching (which is much more demanding in terms of prep). If they're not giving you time and attention then you're just allowing them to just not do their work. Now, obviously supervisors are people too and have their own issues (as this thread makes very clear!), but if they're consistently neglecting you then that's not ok and you have every right to be vocal about it.

I was told three weeks ago that the (new) pg tutor would "keep me informed" but she hasn't been in touch at all. I've sent a reminder today, so we'll see. If I don't hear by the end of the week, I might try the pg rep - hadn't thought of that.

I think there has been some institutional change and I've kind of got lost in that. I started in a small research centre that drew on different disciplines. It's always been a bit of mess administratively, and it's now been absorbed into a bigger school. The supervisor that went on research leave is from a different school, and that school quite obviously feels no responsibility to me whatsoever.

That is totally shit biblio. Like Margaret I was way too young, inexperienced and nervous when I did mine ever to cause a fuss, but inadequate supervision made it WAY harder in the writing up phase (my supervisor didn't even bother reading my final draft). I should have hit the roof about effectively being left for 4 years unsupported, but I just soldiered on while quietly falling apart. Got there in the end, but it could have been way better.

Can you swap one of your supervisors for someone more engaged?

biblio - I would definitely speak to someone about it. Being independent is one thing but you need someone in your corner. And yes, definitely document everything. Hopefully you won't need to but you never know.

Thanks shove. Ironically, I deal with complaints at another university, so I should be far readier to fight my corner on this.

biblio - but it's always different when it's you at the heart of it, and not someone else! Especially with a PhD because impostor syndrome is so much a part of the feeling of doing one - there were times when I was afraid to draw attention to myself in case they 'found out' I didn't really belong!! It seems absolutely ridiculous in retrospect, but I really didn't believe I had a right to moan (or that something terrible would happen if I did). That's why it's important to hear us all telling you that you really ought to, because the levels of supervision you are getting really aren't adequate or OK. You are right to feel narked off and to try to effect change.

Thanks shove, that's completely true. It really does help to hear you all agree that this isn't right. If I haven't received a satisfactory response by the end of this week, I'm going in fighting!

Got get em!!

I do think the single most progressive thing most universities could do is to put in place free childcare for academic staff, because in most cases it is the cost of childcare that makes this a rational decision. I am sick of 'awareness' initiatives and other such things (Athena Swan) when some brute, practical help like a fullly-funded childcare service would be so much more effective.

Amen to this. It's also noticeable that the most prolific and successful women academics of my generation that I know well, all without have partners who spent significant periods as SAHPs and/or who were not particularly career-minded, so were happy to make big and international moves for their female partners' careers.

biblio That's outrageous and reminds me of my own deeply unsatisfactory supervisorial situation during my doctorate (which I was far too young and insecure to do anything about until my final year when I exploded in belated rage, identified the one member of my college staff who hated my supervisor more than I did, and used him to help me transfer to another supervisor with whom I was deliriously happy). Good luck sorting it.

Aw, thanks!

It's also noticeable that the most prolific and successful women academics of my generation that I know well, all without have partners who spent significant periods as SAHPs and/or who were not particularly career-minded

Or they sacrificed all that, and are single & childless. No-one has it easy, and some of us don't even have choices.