To think my husband would earn a salary during a PhD?

[Badgoushk]

My husband is thinking about doing a PhD. He did a masters recently and got a high distinction so I don't think he'd have trouble getting accepted. But the question is can we afford it? Would he get paid? Did you get paid during your PhD? How much please? It would be in Energy/Climate change and it would likely be in London. Thanks.

DH is currently doing a PhD, paid more than quoted on here. But, his project is something he invented/patented a few years ago - green energy tech. Maybe the fact that it is his patent makes a difference?

Worth to consider the "writing up" time. Many universities don't fund this so he could have six months of unpaid writing on the end of his PhD as well.

I think the long term plan is a more important conversation to have with him. Why does he want to do it? What is the action plan when he's finished it? What does he hope to achieve from it?

Oh god, yes, the conferences! definitely check what funding is available - it doesn't always cover your costs!

Surely MA students aren't expected to publish these days?

YY to considering the long-term plan. A successful career in academia may well require a stint abroad, where postdocs are more plentiful and generous. Is that a move you'd be willing to make? What impact would it have on your own career?

DS was offered £16,000 for his PHd though he would of had to live around Greenwich and wasn't sure he could make it work

plastic, a student of mine who's starting her PhD this coming academic year published during her MA. I don't think it is 'expected' but I do know it helped her to secure her funding.

Dp started his PhD 16 years ago and got about £5k a year for 3 years and then nothing for the fourth, writing up year. He worked part time in a petrol station whilst still putting in full time hours in the lab and writing up during that fourth year and the work load was brutal. He's an academic now and the PhD students he supervises generally do funded (Wellcome Trust etc)PhDs and they get around £22k a year tax free. It is extremely competitive. He is quite jealous of the money they earn now and regularly 'complains' and does the whole 'in my day...' bit! Some actually have a take home pay cut when they complete their PhDs as they have to start paying tax and pensions etc.

Plastic, I also had a (very good) doctoral student who published during her MA. She was, for various reasons, unusually committed and well-connected - and older, in that she hadn't progressed straight from school to an undergraduate degree to an MA - but it certainly put her in line for a prestigious PhD scholarship. And in fact despite writing a stellar thesis, and publishing essays in top journals during her doctorate, she still struggled to find a post-doc, and eventually ended up abroad in a deeply un-ideal situation (good institution, but having to commute internationally with a small child). It's brutal out there, even for the good people. Which is why those advising the OP's husband to consider the longterm benefits of having a doctorate are entirely right.

DH was funded enough to maintain a student lifestyle for 3 years.

Agree with others that the big picture is important. Hopefully I'm waaay out of date but I thought it's pretty competitive to turn an energy/climate degree into a job - there are/were far more uni places available - and therefore people with degrees in the area - than jobs. If that is still the case, pursuing a PhD is rather a high risk strategy. And unless the job absolutely requires a PhD, it tends to add less to your job application than an extra 3-4 years' experience. You get the odd recruiter who adores PhDs though and will see it differently.

OTOH I can't imagine DH ever not doing his PhD. It's definitely part of who he is.

I had a few friends who'd got funding for their PhDs but did it part time while working part time. That's probably your dh's best bet as he has responsibilities at home too.

A word of caution:

A friend of mine did a fully-funded PhD. However, she was a couple of months late in submission and lost the scholarship. She now has to find a way to pay back the 45k.

I didn't get paid for my PhD. I got a scholarship for my fees though, so that helped but that was very competitive.

And I carried on working my 'day-job' as I studied (3 days a week). In the last year of my PhD., I was given teaching hours by the Uni and paid approximately £25 per hour (4-6 hours per week, depending on the semester). I did that on top of my aforementioned day-job.

^
Why does he want to do a PhD? Does he want to be an academic or work in a research based job that requires a PhD? If the answer is no to either of these questions then he's probably better of not doing it regardless of whether he is funded.

If he just wants to study more because he's interested in the subject then a PhD probably isn't the right route.^

I completely agree with this.

I did my PhD 20 years ago (research council funded, £5000 a year ish). I didn't become an academic, but have always worked in the same field. My PhD has done me no favours. It's not detrimental, but it's not advantageous either. It's just out a 3 year buffer on my work experience, earnings, mortgage etc.

My MSc is my most "useful" qualification.

I also work in Env Science, but on the civil eng side of things.

A friend of mine did a fully-funded PhD. However, she was a couple of months late in submission and lost the scholarship. She now has to find a way to pay back the 45k.

I don't think this story is true, but if this is genuinely what your friend thinks she should talk to the student union case workers immediately. You should no more have to pay back your PhD funding if you don't complete than you have to give back your salary if you quit your job in the middle of a project.

Thanks everyone.

msrisotto, he says we can't afford it but I'm trying to think of ways we can make it happen for him.

SquawkFish, maybe SOAS. He did his MSc there. Which ones pay the best please? He has one paper that's about to be published. He loves writing and is happy working independently. He's never taught but I think he would be good at it.

NoBetterName, how does one go about securing industry funding or is it arranged per PhD before the student even starts?

AcademicNerd, I'm excellent at budgeting and things are already very tight! We rarely eat out, never buy a coffee, do packed lunches, etc!

Leatherboundanddown, he wants to do it with a view to a career in academia.

LikeTheShoes, I'd love to hear more about it please!

FormerlyCatherineDeB, how did your husband get funding. Mine has discovered an important problem with Energy. Perhaps he needs to find a solution!! And patent it.

PlasticBertrand, I don't really want to move abroad. I have frail elderly parents here. I'm a doctor on maternity leave and am training in the UK system so need to stay here really. Also not keen to move the children around!

NickyEds, what kind of subject?

But if he wants to be an academic, you will almost certainly have to move at some stage, even if not during the PhD, because after the PhD he will do a series of postdocs (short-term contracts, which can pay better or worse than the PhD itself), and it's not so likely he will be able to get all of these at the same institution or in the same area. Possible, but not likely.

What LRD said. Moving around is pretty much par for the course for someone starting out in academia. I lived in a different country to DH during my first job. If being pretty flexible geographically isn't something you can see yourselves managing for all the perfectly good reasons you state, then he needs to rethink.

he wants to do it with a view to a career in academia

Very, very few PhD students stay on in research-related fields after their PhD. Also the money is pretty dire afterwards for a few years in comparison to industry or consultancy salaries. He'll probably need to do a couple of post docs before he gets a permanent lectureship. The hours are long, the graft is hard, he will be working on other people's research and not his own ideas (most probably) and he will have to go through grant uncertainty from year-to-year (or every couple of years depending on the length of the grant).

The most important thing in a PhD is the student-supervisor relationship. He should base his PhD choices on this (and being granted funding) rather than which universities give the most funding. A good supervisor is worth their weight in gold.

A good supervisor is worth their weight in gold.

I can echo that. I had an entirely positive and supportive experience and it is only retrospectively that I realised how fortunate I was in this respect. It certainly isn't a given.

Would I do a PhD again, knowing the uncertainty, the periods of unemployment/non-academic work and the effect on my marriage? I honestly don't know. I got three years of funding and the writing up was a massive challenge financially and then I couldn't find work (of any sort, let alone academic work) straightaway.

I have a temporary research assistant post now, but things are tight still and I'm by no means certain of a career. I started this my PhD in my early 30s and am in my late 30s now and if this doesn't work out my future looks bleak. I'll be forty soon and there's sod-all else I can do. I worry about the future incessantly and it feels like my whole life is on hold.

Echoing what previous posters have said, your DH also needs to be sure his thesis is unique to get funding, so needs to be sure the problem he has "discovered" isn't already half-way to being solved and therefore rendering his research useless if the solution is published halfway through his research.

My DH did a funded PhD, but now works in a completely unrelated field as I think it ruined his interest in his PhD subject, although he doesn't regret doing it

Industry funding is usually secured by the supervisor prior to the student being selected for PhD. The supervisor arranges funding for a particular project and potential students are then interviewed and selected to carry out the project. The downside of industry funding is that the project is pretty much dictated by the company.

Research council funded projects often go via doctoral training centres these days (departments within universities) and students will complete several small projects in the labs of several supervisors before being allocated to one particular supervisor for the remainder of their project. (I'm taking sciences here, I don't have experience of other disciplines). This has the advantage of giving the student broader experience, but also gives perhaps less time to work on their one particular project in depth.

I'd echo what others have said though. A career in academia will involve moving. I did 4 years of postdocs abroad before securing a permanent lectureship. I did a decade in that before deciding it wasn't for me and I'm now on a different (better for me) career path. Very long working hours are also par for the course in academia. I was routinely working into the small hours to get things done and never had a family holiday where I didn't take work with me.

Op- that's in biochemistry/pharmacology type subject. I think dp is very unusual in that we have only moved once and that was to return to my hometown- so dp did undergrad, PhD, first post doc at one Uni then moved less than 50 miles to another city to do second post doc, followed by a fellowship and now he's a lecturer. Moving is much more common. I agree with pp about insecurity, until you get tenure you can often get stuck on 2-3 year post docs which makes settling down very hard. The pay might not be very impressive but I wouldn't say it was dire! Dp is (just) a top rate tax payer at 38-I didn't think that was bad until I came on mn!!

Dp is 37 -I just aged him a year!

Soif everything goes to plan. 38 when he starts 42 when he finishes. Three/Four years of temp/postdoc work takes him to 46ish before a permanent job that could involve a move to the other end of the country and will pay about 30k. And that's if all goes seemingly which is by no means certain.

I'm not saying don't do it, but go into it with your eyes open.