to wish the changes on tax credits had of gone through

[madhurjazz]

They would of affected 1/5th of people on tax credits and that would of caused some issues in the short term so maybe some more help to transition was needed. But since that tax credits sad face woman on question time that was claiming them to run a salon in her lounge they u turned.

This has just resulted in cuts from other areas and not stopped the cuts at all.

Tax credits and housing benefit maybe a good idea for people in the short term. But many people are being long term subsidised and the main beneficiaries are the employers who get away with paying less and making more profits.

I'll probably get flamed for this but how can this country carry on racking up the debt? Its just going to create a greater financial burden on the future generations.

mini

Except... that's not what has happened. Despite high outgoings in areas that Britain is less affected by, and a rather more unhappy employment market than Britain enjoys, people still have a family. A small one. But the majority do not forgo children altogether. And there is no social expectation that they should.

They (we?) make compromises when push comes to shove that probably wouldn't appeal to a Briton (well they haven't appealed to me anyway. At all) in order to keep that small family afloat when shit meets fan. But they/we haven't been reduced to only a small minority having children.

It's just a rather different cultural mindset has evolved towards the thought process behind family planning and the permanence of parental responsibilities. And that both informs and is informed by other aspects of cultural expectations.

Utopia it is not. Not by a long chalk.

However there are more parents who have opted out of parental responsibility in my British extended family than there are in my entire (non British) village. So from my (admittedly biased) perspective, non-British appealing compromises aside, it does have a significant benefit Although I don't know how long that "needs must" protective effect is going to last in the age of digital communication.

As it stands the entire thread may be largely academic. If labour really is fucked for the time being, even if the worst post Brexit predictions about the economy don't come true, how likely is it that a solid, long term Tory rule will result in a softly softly approach to turning around the massive boat that the benefits system ? When was the last time we saw a gov. anywhere take a purely pragmatic approach rather than letting ideology take the wheel a lot of the time ?

I can advocate for slow, careful change only as systems are replaced by robust new systems, allowing for mind set adjustment AND 1st make a priority of tackling the causes of gov. dependence.... til I'm blue in the face.

But I don't even have a vote anymore, much less May's ear.

All the supportive digital biscuits in the world aren't going to help a person who is basing their decisions on the status quo of today, when the odds are that even in the short term the "support when things go bent" landscape is going to look a lot different.

I wish I could articulate what I want to say as well as ipost but I'm going from fury to tears here.
No facts and figures take note of the effect on someone's mental health and how much that costs the NHS to put right when you have been reduced to worthlessness.

Portia, take a step back from the thread. I completely understand. You're far from worthless

Ok pissedoff but someone has to put the point of view from those that have been subjected to DV lost everything and not had a penny from the person they loved and married.
I was not a feckless single Mother, I was married and subjected to DV
I did LTB but who came off worse?
I really wish a person who is probably sitting in a comfy chair with £££££s in the bank would stop thrashing around figures and how they'd put the Country to rights. Easy to do when you're in an ivory tower looking down on others.
So the DV victim will now hide the thread and hope that Karma works

I would have thought that fathers who create more children with other partners when their first child(ren) are on tax credits are a bigger problem that the single mothers that they leave behind.

Has anyone mentioned zero hour contracts yet? Banning them would certainly help workers.

PortiaCastis I've been the single mum, fleeing DV and having to claim benefits (not just tax credits and HB, income support as well as my son has ASD and no childminder would have him). You are not a victim, you are a survivor! The fact your X hasn't faced up to his responsibilities isn't your fault, and the fact that the system helps you out when you need it is right. I hate that you've been made to feel so crap, but please believe me, not everyone thinks like that. Fleeing DV and putting your life back together isn't easy, well done. OP is this what you wanted?

I would have thought that fathers who create more children with other partners when their first child(ren) are on tax credits are a bigger problem that the single mothers that they leave behind.

Well, yes! But there is a peculiar notion amongst a lot of people (men and women alike) that when a new relationship is formed, it must be ratified by a child.

Portia, the prevailing sentiment here is that NRPs (fathers, mostly) should be paying for their children - not the state. We're on your side. You shouldn't be in a position where you have to rely up on the state because the government can't be bothered to enforce child support orders.

Portia

I'm a single mother so might be biased but I've never met a feckless single mother in real life. I know that there are bad mothers (single or not) but if the majority of single mothers were feckless then surely the father would have taken the kids with them? Or maybe the reality is that the fathers who were with these women who are supposedly feckless are worse that that?

It's 'would have' sorry can't take you seriously with that shocking grammar.
I'm sure it's been said already but stop judging others and look at yourself.

£20 per week museaum, when he bothers to pay. He is self employed and does a lot of cash in hand stuff, so when I went to the CSA I was told I would only get £12 per week.

Portia

There is more outrage over Bake Off going to Channel 4 and Mary Berry leaving than there is over the appalling way that many absent fathers are allowed to get way with not paying anything towards their children.

There are certainly more feckless fathers out there. How can single mothers be labelled feckless when they are the ones left behind to care for the children often with no support from their father? So not only do they have to keep it all together when Dad doesn't pay, they have to put up with this rubbish bullying from the media and others.

If they don't work they are lazy and work shy, if they do work and get tax credits they are scrounging and playing the system. Meanwhile Dads off enjoying a new life free of responsibility.

I have unhidden this thread because it has made me so so so fucking cross. How dare you patronise people OP how bloody dare you.
You write like a politician who has no clue how people have to live. You have no right to propose who gets what. Swap places with someone who has to rely on tax credits to feed their child even though they are working. I'll lay a bet you wouldn't last one day.
Did you know there are women who are cramped into a tiny room with their children because they've had to leave their paradise of violence and many of them are not a !ow council sink estate resident but lady muck who thought it would never hapoen to her with all her credit cards.

The op doesn't get it portia please don't allow someone so terrifyingly ignorant and any of her supporters to get you down.

You just keep doing what you are very admirably doing.

It's not just violence. One day my ex decided fatherhood wasn't for him any more and left. We had all the usual affairs, screaming I hate you at my then 12 year old. But that was it for a year he was gone, didn't work. And everything we'd worked for for 15 years disappeared.

Portia you are acting as if I've said "everyone on tax credits is lazy scum" when in fact you have demonstrated that it is a flawed system that needs reform.

I agree with what you've sad I post, but how would you start to reform them? I understand it would take a long time, a couple of decades and I did say in my op that more transition help was needed. They are often called the crack cocaine of benefits as people have become so dependent on them. It's almost like labour created them as a booby trap for future governments. As a previous poster said its like the state becoming a parent. The changes proposed were just a tiny haircut and a start at reform.

I'll not let anyone get me down on here smallfox
After all it's very easy to type words then run. I think people would not be so condescending in RL face to face don't you?
Sad face question time lady had the courage to go on tv even though she knew the media and people who think they are better would denigrate her.
I applauded her for rendering a Daddy's girl politico speechless! So what if she was running a nail bar, at least she was trying.
Anyway I now have to go to work so I can hold my head high.

OP from your previous posts it appears you're an employer irritated that people won't work more in order to stop their HB/tax credits claims being affected? One question, why don't you pay decent wages? If you and every other employer paid a living wage, working tax and housing benefit would be a thing of the past.

aye Yes Yes and Yes
As I said ivory towers, and you've just knocked one very high one down
Thank you

Sad face question time lady had the courage to go on tv even though she knew the media and people who think they are better would denigrate her.
I applauded her for rendering a Daddy's girl politico speechless! So what if she was running a nail bar, at least she was trying.
Anyway I now have to go to work so I can hold my head high.

I'm not even sure if your serious. Question time woman just paints her friends nails in her lounge for cash and claims to have never made a profit. How can she of ever not made a profit? "Working bloody hard" is very subjective. Where is the father of her children to pay for maintenance? She was totally reliant on the state. The pm was useless, to scared to say the wrong thing so said nothing.

OP from your previous posts it appears you're an employer irritated that people won't work more in order to stop their HB/tax credits claims being affected? One question, why don't you pay decent wages? If you and every other employer paid a living wage, working tax and housing benefit would be a thing of the past.

I'm a manager, I have to recruit people but I have no control over the wages. We did actually pay the living wage long before it came in, but its still not good enough. I agree all employees should be paid enough to live on and state support should be for expectional circumstances / short term help.

Im a manager
Well yes I think we all guessed that little gem

Not unreasonable. Tax credit spending in real terms (and its equivalents) has completely ballooned over the last 20 years -- it is around 5 times more now!

The changes weren't about getting rid of tax credits completely, just lowering them slightly for some people.