to wish the changes on tax credits had of gone through

[madhurjazz]

They would of affected 1/5th of people on tax credits and that would of caused some issues in the short term so maybe some more help to transition was needed. But since that tax credits sad face woman on question time that was claiming them to run a salon in her lounge they u turned.

This has just resulted in cuts from other areas and not stopped the cuts at all.

Tax credits and housing benefit maybe a good idea for people in the short term. But many people are being long term subsidised and the main beneficiaries are the employers who get away with paying less and making more profits.

I'll probably get flamed for this but how can this country carry on racking up the debt? Its just going to create a greater financial burden on the future generations.

Oh you're back, I was wondering if you would.

So anyway about my earlier question about your gripe of your employees not taking on extra hours because of tax credits. Are those hours permanent or are they just for Christmas?

*Not unreasonable. Tax credit spending in real terms (and its equivalents) has completely ballooned over the last 20 years -- it is around 5 times more now!

The changes weren't about getting rid of tax credits completely, just lowering them slightly for some people.*

Exactly, they were just a small change for some people.

To Christmas hours were just for Christmas I understand why people on tax credits wouldn't take them, hense why I'm wanting reform of a system that doesn't encourage people to work any more than part time or get promoted.

"Tax credit spending in real terms (and its equivalents) has completely ballooned over the last 20 years -- it is around 5 times more now! "

Because the criteria for who is eligible has changed, and the CTCs have been introduced. Only 16% of the households in the UK are eligible of any form of tax credit.

Tell you what, lets cut some money from the £94bn worth of subsidies, tax cuts etc we give to British firms every year instead, as they are getting subsidised labour too.

"Hense why I'm wanting reform of a system that doesn't encourage people to work any more than part time or get promoted." (sic)

Well, why don't you concentrate on getting employers to pay higher wages and offering better T and Cs before you change the tax credit system?

Yes and let's make sure people don't squirrel away money in offshore accounts. Let's make sure Amazon Google et al pay their share and nobody is offered a job for being completely useless at their previous job. NHS managers for instance

To Christmas hours were just for Christmas grin I understand why people on tax credits wouldn't take them, hense why I'm wanting reform of a system that doesn't encourage people to work any more than part time or get promoted.

But you're not though. The changes proposed would have made taking those hours less profitable, not more. Do you not think you should at least have got a basic understanding of tax credits and the proposed changes before declaring them as a good thing?

An example
www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/08/30/southern-health-boss-quitsbut-will-still-receive-240000-a-year-a/

But you're not though. The changes proposed would have made taking those hours less profitable, not more. Do you not think you should at least have got a basic understanding of tax credits and the proposed changes before declaring them as a good thing?

Its the first step at reforming them, as I've said it will take decades to totally change. Tampering with them would at least make people not complacent and understand they can/ will be changed.

madhurjazz do you honestly think the majority of people on benefits or WTC are complacent? We earn literally pennies over the limit for WTC because DP works 60 + hours a week, we are in the extremely fortunate position of being mortgage free due to a legacy (for which I am very very grateful and do not take for granted), and we are worse off than we were when he was part time. The culture of fear which the Tories have created by going after the lowest income families is absolutely disgusting. If they went after the 5 biggest tax evaders they'd fix the shortfall in a heartbeat. Companies like yours which pay crap wages and keep their boot on the neck of low income people are every bit as much to blame.

I actually pity your staff. Working under a manager with such little grasp on real life and with a blinkered view of life is demoralizing to say the least.

I think many like question time nail bar in lounge for friends never making a penny in profit, are very complacent. Anyone would be by anything if they are used to getting it for years. You've got to be pretty stupid to vote Tory when your reliant on the state.

Playing the google card over an over again doesn't help here, that a seperate issue. People here like to use it to shut down any discussion.

I've already said my employer was paying the living wage long before it came in.

The actual living wage or the rate that has now become the living wage?

You've got to be pretty stupid to vote Tory full stop!! Yes there are people screwing the system which is wrong, but the majority aren't. I live in an area decimated by the Tories in the 80s and the effects are still widely felt. People are "reliant on the state" because of a number of factors, it's extremely rare to find someone who has chosen to be. If employers paid decent wages, if housing costs and childcare costs were capped, if travel, food and daily necessities weren't so expensive, if major corporations paid their taxes, if politicians didn't screw millions in expenses, if Councils didn't have all expenses paid dinners and trips, if legislation actually helped low income families instead of condemning them, if feckless NRPs were forced to pay for their children, then we would have a fair system.

"Its the first step at reforming them."

The first step at reform should be to improve pay and terms and conditions, not to remove that which keeps people out of penury.

The google card is totally valid to play ( as is the list of tax other avoiders) because you are focusing on cutting benefits from the people who need it, using the excuse of deficit reduction, whilst allowing tax avoidance on a large scale.

Do try to hone your arguments better.

I must admit, I have a couple of issues with tax credits.

I'm not bashing anyone that receives them, but:

What did we do before tax credits were introduced?

Why are they called tax credits when they don't appear to be a credit against tax?

It's all very well people saying that firms should pay higher wages, but for as long as people want 2.5kg of spuds for £1.50 the people packing them (in the processing plant) and the people stacking them (on the shelves in supermarkets) will rarely be paid more than the minimum wage. I'm all in favour of higher wages, but those higher wages will drive inflation, so people are unlikely to feel significantly better off.

Housing costs are ludicrous. Unless this is resolved then the benefits bill will only increase.
A programme of social housing that is genuinely affordable and secure needs to be out in place. That's more important than some of the big capital projects that money is being thrown at.
Reducing benefits while supply of housing is low doesn't solve the problem.

My tax credits increased by £500 when I started working...I do have 1 child in childcare now though. I was shocked. My part time wage plus tax credits adds up to almost 2k a month. I phoned up to confirm my details and they said it's all fine. So why did mine increase? Is it because of the childcare aspect?

Are you bloody stupid OP? People like you really annoy me. The only people I know that are so judgey like this usually have relatives doing all the childcare free for them to make full time work possible. Well that's great if you have the help but some people have nobody. You don't know they won't pay into the system and work hard once kids in school etc

HAVE made a profit op ,
HAVE
HAVE
HAVE.

Also tax credits are not benefits , at least not until the Tories convinced the less intelligent that they were.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=8dllkfKg7B4

Ok I will bite..The woman running a nail bar in her lounge with not a penny profit will not be able to do that indefinately..You have to now prove it is a viable business.

As for the rest. ..You have no idea.. I am a LP with a child with SEN. So I have to attend meetings at school. I worked full time and could not manage.. If it didn't cut to part time . By part Time I work about 30 hours a week everything would of fallen apart and already was. The I work FT so why shouldn't you drive me up the wall.. I have worked 70-80 hours a week pre child and paid tax. EVeryone's life if different. The support some children need is different.

I wonder why no one still debates why there was tax cuts for the richest... Even my 9 year old understands the poorest are most affected by the cuts and austerity.

I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't tax credits come in to replaced e the different tax codes and rates?

Married folk had a difere t tax code, single folk, people with children etc etc.

We are all of us vulnerable and literally anyone can lose their job (as Gideon found out) so being smug doesn't work when applying for JSA. Reduced to workfare at Poundland is a good eye opener though

PortiaCastis well said! There but for the grace of God go I seems very apt!

iPost a lot of what you say makes sense but I'm a bit baffled by your numerous references to families having too many children. The average number of children per family in the UK is 1.8. The tabloid headlines would have us all believe that the benefits system encourages feckless breeders to squeeze one out every year for sixteen years but actually this is not what is happening. People generally have the number of kids they can afford. Which was not the case before welfare benefits were introduced/became as comprehensive as they are now. Family size was much larger then.