To think that scholarships for women shouldn't be open to men?

[HermioneWeasley]

So, scholarship to support women in STEM - a massive issue for all societies that we're not harnessing th talents of half our populations in this area.

But if you "identify as a woman in a way that's meaningful to you" you can apply.

What the ever loving fuck?

Another example of the damage being done to actual women, by saying that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head.

If a male become 'trans' at 60 - how is he negatively affected by the patriarchy? He is the patriarchy.

Well why don't you ask a trans woman? Having seen a close gay male friend in hospital after being beaten up on a night out by a homophobic thug, I don't subscribe to the view that it's not possible to be a biologically male victim of patriarchal values. If you can't imagine that a trans woman might experience obstacles or hostility then I envy your experience as you clearly live in a kinder corner of the world than I do.

In a funny way you're so close idaho - the reasoning is the same but the conclusion is different.

Yes the patriarchy is harmful to almost everyone. It is the most harmful to women.

Sorry, I'm not saying there's no such thing as gender. Clearly gender exists. It's just not a single or binary concept. But if you're comfortable with the idea of gender as a social construct, why is it so upsetting that someone might not accord with the gender traditionally assigned to their biological sex?

It is the most harmful to women.

I don't agree it's a competition. Personally, as a straight, white, middle class woman, I have not suffered under the patriarchy at all. Certainly not as much as some, e.g., gay men, trans people... That doesn't mean I don't think women suffer, that sexism exists, and so on.

I agree that misogyny is a strong force in society and to be combatted. But for me one of the important ways it comes through is through fear and hatred for trans-people, who suggest that male-ness and female-ness might not be as self-evident and natural as some would like

AGREED!

That's just fantasy surwly

Surely

"I don't subscribe to the view that it's not possible to be a biologically male victim of patriarchal values"

Again, no one has said this. Have they? Did I miss it?

#3

'why is it so upsetting that someone might not accord with the gender traditionally assigned to their biological sex?'

It is not upsetting. Gads.

Again, no one has said this. Have they? Did I miss it?
Well yes, someone suggested that a 60 year old trans man couldn't be a victim of the patriarchy. And on the view that women need help in science because of the patriarchy not because there is something special about women that makes them bad at science, it's an assumption underlying the OP.

So to summarise idaho in the case of this scholarship it should be separated on the basis of gender into men and non-men, because gender non conforming males are also discriminated against?
It's a logical position. But the kind of thing that's irritating to feminists as women exist in a class very different to "non-men".
I'm also not sure that GNC men are discriminated against more than females in STEM. I spent most of my life in STEM and especially in engineering and computing, an oddball man is common place but a woman is very rare.

It is not upsetting. Gads.

I think many of the posters on this thread and others seem deeply offended and upset by the idea that biological males might identify as women.

But the kind of thing that's irritating to feminists as women exist in a class very different to "non-men".

One thing that is irritating to feminists is defining one strand of feminist thought as feminism! It's perfectly possible to be a trans-positive feminist. And it's a mainstream part of many feminisms that women are "the second sex".

Ah so one person asked how one eg of a late transitioning trans person is negatively affected. Of course they could be, odds are they aren't though.

"because of the patriarchy not because there is something special about women that makes them bad at science"
I'm sure you don't mean it this way, but that reads like (as you don't think it is solely patriarchy) you think there is something special about women that makes them bad at science?!

'I think many of the posters on this thread and others seem deeply offended and upset by the idea that biological males might identify as women.'

This is not what you said . You said this:

'why is it so upsetting that someone might not accord with the gender traditionally assigned to their biological sex?'

These are not the same. It is entirely possible to be a man who does not accord with the gender traditionally assigned to their biological sex WITHOUT saying they are a woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(or vice versa)

Which is why I said GADS !

Yes you are right idaho.
I find it upsetting when males redefine woman as "a feeling". It negates all the shit I put up with on a daily basis through having a female body. Such as epic bloodbath periods.
It negates all the girls in the world who have been killed at or before birth because of their female body. Or been unable to access education because of taboos round periods.
Trans women who accept they aren't identical to real women, but want to present as women and not face bullying and harassment don't offend me in the least. I have huge empathy for them.
Anyone who says "woman is an identity", "trans women ARE women, period" or anything else that denies women's biological reality offends me though.

Ahem so people are allowed to be gender nonconformist so long as their non-conformity conforms to received opinion about how gender works...? Can't see why anyone would have a problem with that...

Sex and gender are not the same.

You can make up a gender, be whatever you like, but you cannot change your sex.

Really idaho? I would have thought defining men (gender men) as the default human and clumping everyone who doesn't fit that into an inferior box labelled "women" was something that would get up the nose of all feminists.

I suggest you read your Simone de Beauvoir, for example.

Odfod. Bringing up de Beauvoir is trans activist tripe. She certainlying did not mean males can become a woman when she wrote that.

I suggest you read your Hans Christian Andersen

Hambo

I'm not saying she did I'm saying that the idea that gender man being defined as the default human and women being "othered" by masculinity is a mainstream feminist idea and not something new.