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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

First woman to fight on the frontline

373 replies

napmeistergeneral · 17/09/2016 02:22

Transgender woman becomes "first female" in British army to serve on frontline.
Link is to the guardian but covered by other outlets also.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/17/transgender-soldier-is-first-female-to-serve-on-the-front-line

I don't doubt it's an incredibly hard and scary thing to be a trans woman in the army and for that chloe deserves support and praise. But I'm afraid I still feel unconvinced by the "first woman" claim.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable and unconvinced about firsts for women being claimed by trans women?

OP posts:
Original poster
napmeistergeneral · 18/09/2016 20:21

Thank you, icyfront, that was very eloquent.

OP posts:
Cisoff · 19/09/2016 03:01

Well, if icy and eve's posts don't make the believers choke on the kook-aid, I don't know what will.

Cisoff · 19/09/2016 03:02

kook?

kool.

Although perhaps kook is more appropriate.

WaitrosePigeon · 19/09/2016 03:14

Er hold the phone. He is a man. That is a man. With male experiences and socialisation.

What a way to undermine women even more. Embarasssing.

WaitrosePigeon · 19/09/2016 03:15

AIBU to feel uncomfortable and unconvinced about firsts for women being claimed by trans women?

That is the bottom line. Disgusted.

WaitrosePigeon · 19/09/2016 03:24

Are you fucking kidding me?

He will want to be in our toilets next standing up for a piss whilst wearing a dress.

I am livid.

First woman to fight on the frontline
WaitrosePigeon · 19/09/2016 03:28

Despite her transformation, Chloe’s day-to-day life at her barracks has little changed

So basically she wants the best of both worlds? Man during the day and pops a dress on at night? All the while gaining credit for being a 'woman' on the frontline?

No. I don't buy it. I won't be calling him a her either, MNHQ.

Will be interested to see if I'm deleted to see who's side you're *really' on.

pontificationcentral · 19/09/2016 03:56

I have a lovely friend who did exactly that. Male soldier until 5pm when he popped on a frock until he went back to work the next day. It was just easier than transitioning at work. So I do get that Chloe has made a different decision. (Friend fully transitioned when he retired from army. He popped over for top surgery during resettlement).

GarlicMist · 19/09/2016 04:23

I think I read that Chloe decided to transition very recently, after one of her (then 'his') barrack mates saw him in a dress. Looks like a fortuitous PR move for the Army, and heads off any problems he might have encountered if he'd not been selected as poster girl.

We all know that rates of transgenderism (is that a word?) are sky-high in the Forces compared to the civil population. I'd tend to think it makes sense to have a few flagship transwomen out there.

I am as mad as hell that Chloe's being represented as a woman - a female soldier - when she is not! Represent her as a transwoman soldier, and let soldiers without a Y chromosome get their due credit in 2018.

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/09/2016 06:02

Highly gendered societies and structures are bound to result in more MtT people. And have through history. Because if you can wear what you like and do what you like, why would you bother?

Chloe is breaking out of a box. Good for Chloe. But it's a different box to the one women are breaking out of. And anyone who argues differently is a an idiot.

MangoMoon · 19/09/2016 07:26

Highly gendered societies and structures are bound to result in more MtT people.

YY

This is what my train of thought is tbh.

The armed forces are rigid in uniform rules (I could recite chapter & verse what was 'allowed').

If they just relaxed the whole rigid gender lines, then anyone could wear or present how they wanted.

If you are a man & want to wear earrings & have long hair - fine, no problem.
Stick within the regulations for hair, make up & jewellery just as women currently do.

By applying such rigid ideas of gender, the only way a male serviceman can present as they wish is to 'be' transgender.

NNChangeAgain · 19/09/2016 07:49

By applying such rigid ideas of gender, the only way a male serviceman can present as they wish is to 'be' transgender.

Isn't it a reflection that gender is becoming more polarised in society as a whole that trans- has become mainstream?

We've all said in these discussions - a few years ago, a man was a man even if he chose to wear make up and heels (Boy George, Eddie Izzard etc). Now, if men do that, they are deemed to be women.

RestlessTraveller · 19/09/2016 08:01

This thread is an embarrassment.

DeliciousIrony · 19/09/2016 08:04

Being female is not a feeling.

MangoMoon · 19/09/2016 08:22

Why is this thread an embarrassment?

Snowshimmer · 19/09/2016 09:11

It's probably "vile" too Mango. But why it is, the passerbyes will never tell us.

Buunychops · 19/09/2016 09:39

I agree it is an embarrassment; that so many people don't understand the difference between gender and biology. . . .

And believe that gender out-trumps biology.

WaitrosePigeon · 19/09/2016 09:47

This thread is an embarrassment

Oh let me guess, it's 'transphobic' or some dribble.

BeyondASpecialSnowflake · 19/09/2016 09:55

Definitely, buuny! That must be what restless meant too...?

Willow2016 · 19/09/2016 10:16

Restless:

Yes its embarassing that the forces have bowed down to a pr stunt and taken any future achievement away from subsequent real women who go to the front line.

Chloe is having the best of both worlds, didnt start hormone treatment until the new rules were passed, and runs to the papers with her story to get their 15 minutes of fame at the expense of actual women. And appears to be enjoying the best of both worlds. Has a fully male body ( a couple of hormone injections doesnt a woman make) yet can be called 'the 1st Woman' nahhhh I dont think, so the '1st trans' ? Well others seem to KNOW differently who are actually in the forces! Its a bloody farce.

Many trans people just get on with it, they dont need to make a circus out of their lives, I was nursing when the first gender realignment was done in Scotland. There was no press calls, no fanfare the person did it quietly and with dignity, no demands, no drama and was a lovely person. Maybe Chloe should take some lessons from them.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 19/09/2016 10:19

I'm not embarrassed by the army letting Chloe transition. That's good. But I am embarrassed by the pitiful standard of the press in reporting it as Chloe being female when he so obviously isn't. Are there no standards of truth any more? Clearly not.

Batteriesallgone · 19/09/2016 10:30

This is so crazy.

We are going to have to end up accepting cis-women as a way to describe born females.

I just can't see women winning the fight tbh. It makes me sad that this is the way society has gone.

EveOnline2016 · 19/09/2016 10:39

I have no issue with people identifying what they want to be.

Biologically this person is male. He is male because that's what his chromosome are.

This isn't the first women to go to the front line and it shouldn't be recorded as a historical event.

What it should be recorded as is the first transgender women to go to the front line.

numberseven · 19/09/2016 10:44

"We are going to have to end up accepting cis-women as a way to describe born females."

But haven't you heard, some trans women say they actually ARE cis after they go through the surgery.

Cisoff · 19/09/2016 11:10

Accept 'cis'? Never.

If 'women' won't do, then I'll happily accept 'actual' as a qualifier. Never cis.