First woman to fight on the frontline

[napmeistergeneral]

Transgender woman becomes "first female" in British army to serve on frontline.
Link is to the guardian but covered by other outlets also.
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/17/transgender-soldier-is-first-female-to-serve-on-the-front-line

I don't doubt it's an incredibly hard and scary thing to be a trans woman in the army and for that chloe deserves support and praise. But I'm afraid I still feel unconvinced by the "first woman" claim.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable and unconvinced about firsts for women being claimed by trans women?

[dementedma]

There is another thread running on this too. Well done to Chloe for being brave enough to be who he/she wants to be, but he/she is NOT a woman!

[Cheby]

This is bonkers. I respect Chloe's right to choose her name and pronouns, I wish her well, and I hope she and everyone else fighting for the country stay safe. But Chloe is absolutely not the first woman to fight on the front line.

If we all agree this is the first woman to fight on the front line, then there will be no more need to argue that case any more, even though no biological women have ever been able to do that (should they wish).

I am struggling to articulate this well but recognising transwomen's achievements as women's achievements in this way allows the fight for women's equality to be diminished or silenced.

[dementedma]

Cheby your last sentence nailed it!

[napmeistergeneral]

Thanks for all the replies.It is particularly interestingto hear from those with insight into the forces.

I do not wish this to be trans bashing. I feel conflicted by my own feelings and wanted to ask how others feel.

Cheby does articulate it well; it is the silencing or diminishing (or the potential for) that bothers me most.

[Boiing]

Yanbu. Such a relief to read this thread, the gender identity debate has got out of control in the last few years. I have no problem with guys wearing dresses, make up or doing whatever the hell they like in the bedroom (have fun!) but it is flipping insulting to women the number of times I've read "I knew I was a woman because I always loved dollies and makeup." Etc etc. That doesn't make you a woman. Being born with a womb makes you a woman, that's what the word means. Growing up with female hormones, period pain, and a steady diet of sexist discrimination / low level harrassment make you a woman. Walking down the street at night knowing that you're physically weaker than at least half the the people there makes you a woman. Having your sex drive go crazy for 3 days a month, then crash at other times, makes you a woman. If I coloured myself in brown with a felt-tip and demanded everyone refer to me as black, I'd be called racist, but somehow it's ok for trans men to do this to actual women. No offence to Chloe but one day an actual woman will struggle her way to the front line of the army - and Chloe just stole her thunder. Someone wants to be trans? Fine. Someone 'identifies as a woman?' Oh grow up. I identify as filthy rich and drop-dead gorgeous. But I ain't.

[BeyondASpecialSnowflake]

❄️

[GunnyHighway]

Boiling excellent post that nails it

[Cisoff]

It's bullshit. This male is the latest in a long line of males fighting on the frontline.

The headline pretends that this is some great leap forward for feminism, when it's nothing of the sort.

[JellyBelli]

Does Chloe have a penis?
If so, then Chloe is not a woman. Chloe is the first trans person to fight on the front line.

[MrsJayy]

If he is a woman my names Dave this really is a slap in the face for women in the forces, I ususlly avoid trans threads but this is ridiculous he is the first recognised cross dresser to fight on the frontline but that tagline isnt quite as catchy .

[VeryBitchyRestingFace]

This gets my back up. How many more "firsts" for women are going to be ascribed to trans women??

And of course, pointing this out makes you a TERF/trans basher/ciswoman zzzzzzzz.

[MaudGonneMad]

Less than a month of hormone therapy apparently.

[Puzzledconfusedandbewildered]

Was Chloe born with a penis?
Was Chloe born with the xy chromosome pattern?

If the answer to the above is yes he's a man.

[liz70]

"Oh look, another trans-bashing thread.What a novelty."

Yep.

[BeyondASpecialSnowflake]

Blah blah blah terf blah blah blah diaf blah blah blah...

Try reading the bloody posts.

[merrymouse]

Liz70, perhaps you could explain why it is logical to suggest that Chloe is a relevant example of a woman serving in the front line?

[crikey81]

"Chloe now sports long, polished fingernails and is growing her hair into a feminine bob"

Because this is all that defines being a woman, ffs!

[MrsJayy]

If chloe was abiological female she would not be allowed to fight on the front line she would be working with the other female soldiers its not transbashing its fact.

[origamiwarrior]

I heard Chloe on the news saying how pleased she was that the army had allowed her to stay in the infantry and serve, as she had feared she would be made to move to another unit, and how this was a great step forward for transgender, how great/forward thinking the army had been etc.

Is she just thick, or doesn't she realise that the reason the Army are not moving her to another unit is because they still recognise her as male. Surely a real step forward for transgender would be if Chloe had been made to move units, in alignment with her preferred gender?

[FloraFox]

This is ridiculous! Mainstream news outlets are reporting this person as female. A great day for New Speak. No words now exist to describe that class of humans who produce eggs and bear children. The oppression faced by that class of humans can no longer be based on them belonging to that class because it no longer exists. Any issue previously considered a women's issue is no longer a women's issue because there's no such thing as a class of women.

Total fucking bullshit.

[MrsJayy]

origami you are right call me chloe is still recognised as male at work

[VeryBitchyRestingFace]

Surely a real step forward for transgender would be if Chloe had been made to move units, in alignment with her preferred gender?

Is she still in all male unit???

[WickedLazy]

The first "woman" from one small pocket of Europe to fight on the frontline.

Let's not forget the one thousand female members of the Zeravani unit, a branch of the Kurdish Peshmerga.

Strong, fierce, and proud, they, with countless others, pit their lives at risk every day.

abcnews.go.com/International/women-war-meet-female-peshmerga-fighters-taking-isis/story?id=39142160

"They also claim they are very feared by the enemy. A female Zeravani captain said it would be "humiliating" for an ISIS fighter to be killed by a woman.

"ISIS is scared of us!" she said."

If isis ever caught them, what they would do to them would be horrific.

[MiddleClassProblem]

So from what pp said infantry is frontline. So why aren't women placed in infantry? Is the only way for a women to get that role to be trans?