First woman to fight on the frontline

[napmeistergeneral]

Transgender woman becomes "first female" in British army to serve on frontline.
Link is to the guardian but covered by other outlets also.
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/17/transgender-soldier-is-first-female-to-serve-on-the-front-line

I don't doubt it's an incredibly hard and scary thing to be a trans woman in the army and for that chloe deserves support and praise. But I'm afraid I still feel unconvinced by the "first woman" claim.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable and unconvinced about firsts for women being claimed by trans women?

[napmeistergeneral]

Thanks Welly for the interesting links.

[DoreenLethal]

'Hi Sarge, just to let you know I identify as a woman now. Please call me Chloe'
'Ok erm Chloe. So you are definitely identifying as a woman now'
'Yup.'
'Right then, we'd best get you back onto the backline pronto, women are not allowed to fight on the front line as you know. It comes with a paycut, natch.'
'Erm. That's not fair. I was ok fighting until I told you I was having a fancy [more expensive] bob harcut'.
'Yes. Life as a woman is unfair. Welcome to the real world.'

Is how it should have gone, if Chloe really wants to experience some of 'life as a woman'.

So now we have a situation where the only women who are allowed to do some 'men only' things are ex men!

It really is fucking outrageous.

[MrsKCastle]

Like someone upthread, I am concerned by the use of the word "female" in this context. I would love to hear a definition of the word from The Sun, The Daily Mail, Sky news, the Mirror and all the companies that have used it.

Chloe is not female. She is not the first female soldier serving on the front line.

She is the first transwoman in that situation and I am pleased for her and can see that her acceptance represents real progress for the military. It should be celebrated. But the way the story is being twisted is utterly ridiculous and erases women.

[mpsw]

*So now we have a situation where the only women who are allowed to do some 'men only' things are ex men!

Sorry, but that's simply not true. The rules changed in July this year, allowing women to serve in the infantry. All women who meet the criteria are now 'allowed'. I don't know I if there are any coming through the selection/training process, but if not the reasons would be disinclination to apply in the first place, or not meeting the required standard to progress. Not being disallowed by the rules.

Had the rules not changed, Chloe would have transferred to a non-infantry unit, just as other transitioning people have done in the past, and she said on camera that she had been ready to do that. But the change in the rules came at a time which meant she did bit need to.

[Cheby]

I do think that it is really positive that Chloe has been allowed to stay and hasn't been forced to chance regiments or leave her job. It shows that the army has become more tolerant and is hopefully going to tackle bullying and discrimination in a more proactive way.

The thing I resent here is presenting Chloe as the first woman on the front line. If this story had been 'first transwoman on front line' it would be fine, and I do think it's a good step towards the general acceptance that people can wear what they want and behave according to a whole range of different gender stereotypes no matter what their biological sex.

It just gets too much for me when instead of celebrating differences we end up reinforcing strict gender roles by saying that if you present in a feminine way you must actually be a woman. It's restrictive for everyone.

[Willow2016]

I have to agree with the fact that Chloe isnt a woman and never can be biologically.

Getting sick to death of the marginalisation of women by the trans movement. No we are not all women together, you have a mans body. Whether you feel like you should be a woman or not is not the question. I would hope that you will be treated kindly and supported but not at the expense of women who are born that way. You do not 'deserve' special treatment above women just because of what you are doing to your body.

I have every sympathy for someone going through hell to become something else, but Chloe isnt a woman, she has a mans body so its bloody wrong to claim she is the 'first woman' to do anything! The whole pc thing is going bonkers, so anyone who rocks up to the army recruitment office in a dress and nail varnish can claim they are a woman and get special privileges because they clearly arent yet nobody wants to mention the elephant in the room?

What about all the women in the forces who put their lives on the line every day? Medics, doctors, nurses, drivers ad infinitum who work in war zones never knowing if a stray bullet or missile may hit them where they work?

I dont paint my nails more than once or twice a year, I constantly forget to put my earings in, am I a man? Call the press I am a bloody miracle as I have 2 kids!

Trans are not women, they can dress like them, they can 'act' like them they can do whatever floats their boat its fine, as long as they are not attempting to disenfranchise women in the process but they are not biologically women.

[NotAnotherHarlot]

It is quite frankly ludicrous to suggest that this does will not diminish the achievements of women who get through infantry training (currently none) and succeed in being on the front line.

This is the same problem as CEOs who have transitioned mtf once they are a CEO are counted as women breaking the glass ceiling. No. They didn't. There was no glass to break. They got there as male.

[NotAnotherHarlot]

Sorry for grammatical errors - emotion getting in the way.

[Willow2016]

POsted too soon.

If the headline had said "First Trans woman" it would have been fine, although as someone said they knew of other trans people in the forces, they just dont go looking for publicity.

[varvara]

What? So if a biological woman ever does serve on the frontline she will receive no recognition because it was all thanks to Chloe the Trailblazer! Sod that! Stop erasing women! Stop erasing their achievements!

[Lorelei76]

I heard this on the radio and it was announced as first woman on the frontline. Because of the recent law change, I thought it was an actual born woman and I was pleased. False reporting.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

It's ridiculous. Chloe is not female in any sense at all.
The newspapers are taking us for idiots.

[WinchesterWoman]

This is why we shouldn't accept that transwoman = woman. People might actually believe something that wasn't true. Should never ever be accepted.

[merrymouse]

Had the rules not changed, Chloe would have transferred to a non-infantry unit, just as other transitioning people have done in the past, and she said on camera that she had been ready to do that. But the change in the rules came at a time which meant she did bit need to.

All that means is that trans women don't have to suffer the discrimination that women have been subject to for centuries, because rightly it is no longer legal to discriminate in that way. While that isn't a bad thing in itself, it only has a tangential connection to women serving in the army.

[YelloDraw]

Fucking hell that is not a woman. Transwoman at absolute best. Cross dressing man more accurately.

We are in dangerous times with Transright firmly trampling on the rights of actual women.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

I am glad to see the BBC have avoided the word 'female', unlike some of the press. Calling a man female is a new level of inaccuracy.

[WomanActually]

Nope, sorry, Chloe is not the first female on the frontline. If Chloe was born male, sex can not be changed, she can't be female. She's the first transwoman.

I'm happy Chloe is able to stay in her role, she absolutely should be there, but her journey to get on that frontline was done as a male, when/if a female gets there then her experience will be very very different, and claiming Chloe is the first female to get there totally erases those differences, which harms women, as it makes it harder to point out the unfairness and extra battles women and girls still face in 2016, if you can't name it, you can't fight to change it.

[Capricorn76]

Allowing self identification is a bonus to organisations who have historically practised pay discrimination. All you need is a couple of male execs to identify as female and on paper they've achieved equality.

[crikey81]

To insist things are true despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary

Thought the above thread title was going to be about these headlines!

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

Chloe Allen is male. I am still Spartacus.

[WinchesterWoman]

haven't done spartacus yet

i am spartacus. Chloe is a bloke.

[MrsKCastle]

Chloe is not female.

I am Spartacus.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Chloe is a bloke identifying as the opposite gender. That's fine and great she has had (and still has) the "balls" to start to transition into a transgender female. But please don't say this is the first woman on the front line. It's so patronising to more than 50% of the population.

[dementedma]

minute it was going to be leaked. Army had no choice but to issue a press release.
I am Spartacus.

[JellyBelli]

Chloe is the first trans person to fight at the front line.