First woman to fight on the frontline

[napmeistergeneral]

Transgender woman becomes "first female" in British army to serve on frontline.
Link is to the guardian but covered by other outlets also.
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/17/transgender-soldier-is-first-female-to-serve-on-the-front-line

I don't doubt it's an incredibly hard and scary thing to be a trans woman in the army and for that chloe deserves support and praise. But I'm afraid I still feel unconvinced by the "first woman" claim.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable and unconvinced about firsts for women being claimed by trans women?

[Wellywanga]

MrsJayy origamiwarrior

In July this year it was passed that women can now fight in the front line, so no need to transfer.

But women haven't yet had time to go through their training and pass yet, and the first who do slogg their way there won't be getting any fan fair now.

[MiddleClassProblem]

X post, thank you welly

[MrsJayy]

No Welly these women who do go into infantry regiments won't get recognition in the Gaurdian because chloe got there first.

[MrsJayy]

Infantry of their regiments is what i tried to say.

[PlasticBertrand]

Bodicea got there a bit earlier

[Ratley]

I was half asleep when I saw this on BBC and wondered why they weren't showing Chloe. Then realised the clearly male soldier they were showing was "her". What a ridiculous piece of none news. Male soldier paints his fingernails and grows his hair (a bit) carries on with his job.

[Wellywanga]

Recognition in the guardian, telegraph, mirror, bbc, daily mail, Express, sun, online news agents........


Its stupid, what would they write?
The first Real woman on the front line? God no! The TAs would be out raged that chloe isn't classed as a real woman.

First biological woman maybe? No biology is a construct......

Errr what about, first Cis women?
Yes that"ll do, Not catchy though and most readers will be asking "a what woman?"

So best not bother ehh?

[dementedma]

Have just had a conversation with this with someone involved in the case. Can't say more for fear of outing. Army were under considerable pressure from legals to make this announcement recognising Chloe as a woman, as, in law, she is - apparently. To do otherwise would have left them open to all sorts of allegations and law suits.

[Snowshimmer]

YANBU. First transgender person, yes. First female, NO.

[MaudGonneMad]

That's interesting dementedma - but in law Chloe isn't a woman, since they don't have a GRC. Maybe the army were preempting any legal action.

[MidniteScribbler]

Have just had a conversation with this with someone involved in the case. Can't say more for fear of outing. Army were under considerable pressure from legals to make this announcement recognising Chloe as a woman, as, in law, she is - apparently. To do otherwise would have left them open to all sorts of allegations and law suits.

They didn't have to announce it. This person can call themselves whatever they want, but the army didn't need to make it public. "We believe it's a security risk to identify frontline personnel" and it never need be mentioned.

[WickedLazy]

I know I read somewhere, some isis fanatics think if they're killed by a woman, they won't go to heaven.

So from a theological point of view, where would Chloe send an isis soldier, if she killed him? What would the isis fighter assume his fate would be when he caught a glimpse of her, and does that matter?

[Justwanttoweeinpeace]

YY OP- completely agree.

The BBC using phrases like 'cis' also leaves me feeling very very uncomfortable.

[Snowshimmer]

WickedLazy Those Kurdish women are so strong, may they be safe and victorious.

[toptoe]

Won't this open the door tho - now that the army have to recognise her as a woman it means they have opened the door so that other women can join her? It sounds like they were forced to view her as a woman, so it wasn't something they wanted to do. Now legally they allow women on the frontline. So other women will be able to go there too.

[MrsJayy]

Its all so LOOK AT ME from Chloes end isnt it ?

[WinchesterWoman]

I ain't seeing no woman there.

[Capricorn76]

Why are the media so keen to paint males as female?

Sex is a biological fact.

Race isn't a biological fact and with the rainbow of colours from the whitest white person to the blackest black person, it's impossible to say what 'race' someone is. Where are the lines between 'races' drawn? A person may look 'Asian' but may have two 'white' parents.

What I'm attempting to say is why are they pushing a line that males can be female which is biologically impossible but at the same time won't entertain that a very fair person can be be 'black' which is possible? Is it because 'racial' division is positive for them in some way as is undermining females?

I'm happy that Chloe feels she can be herself and is respected at work but she's not female and hasn't achieved any female firsts.

[Wellywanga]

MaudGonneMad

I think all self identification is now protected by law, from what I read from this. There is a PDF file, and I think it is page 12 running on from page 10. I may be reading it wrong though.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/transgender-equality-report-government-response


Its coincidental that Chloe started hormone treatment the same month the band on women fighting on the frontline was lifted.

[traviata]

But this is all nonsense, leaving aside the particular status of Chloe . Women have fought on the front line in wars, in hand-to-hand combat, in positions of leadership or not, for ever.

As well as the Kurdish fighters mentioned by a pp, a few seconds on Google produces;
Female Warriors

women in ancient warfare

and loads more.

[MaudGonneMad]

Thanks Welly - I think that's a government response rather than an Act of Parliament. It implies they will change the law to 'streamline' the process, but AFAIK that hasn't happened yet.

[Snowshimmer]

I was just about to mention Boudicca. Surely she was one of the first women on the front line - one of the first known at least.

[Wellywanga]

Offcom, the bbc, channel 4 and probably others, all work closely with and get their guidance on reporting and program making(of trans issues) from these organisations.

www.onroadmedia.org.uk/work/working-with-the-transgender-community/

And Trans Media Watch.

Not a bad thing.

But how far do you go at the expense of women.

[merrymouse]

now that the army have to recognise her as a woman it means they have opened the door so that other women can join her?

It was already impossible to discriminate against a woman simply on the grounds that she is a woman. However, reasons that people have used to argue that women shouldn't have front line positions don't have much to do with Chloe.

[Wellywanga]

Thanks MaudGonneMad

it is just when reading the gov responses, they use words like 'we have issued guidance' and 'we will update the guidance'

The guidance already given to organisations and service providers, is that self identification has the same protective rights as a GRS certificate.