WAS I WRONG TO SHOUT BACK AT WORK BULLY

[user1473872482]

Today I did something that I probably should not have done as it is totally out of character for me. I have been in my job for just over 4 years which has been made miserable by the work bully. I did tell my Manager and the Area Manager 3 years ago and they spoke to the bully. Well since then I have had to speak to my Manager a further 3 times about the bully's behaviour. Today though after keeping quiet for 4 years I stood up for myself and shouted back at the bully and told her she has a attitude problem and is very rude and I will be telling Area Manager of her poor behaviour towards me. She said to me I just spoke to you nicely but I told her not to look at me and to go away and leave me alone. I told my Manager as she asked me what had happened and I explained to her what happened leading up to me shouting back at her. She then straight away got on the phone to Area Manager and told her about situation. My Manager last time I told her said she is on my side and if next time the bully bothers me she will tell Area Manager to sort things out. Was I in the wrong for speaking out and shouting at the Bully?

Just to add - I'm not claiming what happened to me was bullying. She had a reputation for being a bully and I was not going to allow her to even start it with me.

Bully has started again. Seriously don't know what to do now as the Area Manager has not been in yet and I don't know whether saying anything to my Manager is even worth it either as every time I tell her she speaks to her and it goes back to the same again.

I can't really say anything back to Bully either as she will turn it all back on me.

This is an awful situation OP, if anyone is BU it is the bosses/managers for being so ineffective in dealing with the bully, which they are aware is a persistent problem.
They shouldn't be talking about transfers, that'd be an easy way for them to remove the complainer (you) instead of actually having to deal with the problem, path of least resistance for them & less effort required.
But why the hell should you be pushed out? Unless you actually want to be transferred & have requested it, or your performance reviews have shown an issue with how well you do the work, then what they're doing is wrong wrong wrong!!
Give ACAS a call, they're impartial & will give you good advice on what to do next... you might find that your bosses are in a world of trouble.
Have you got a HR dept? Have you thought about raising a grievance against bully?

user1473872482 I am very sorry that "Bully has started again."

Re "the Area Manager has not been in yet and I don't know whether saying anything to my Manager is even worth it either as every time I tell her she speaks to her and it goes back to the same again."

I would suggest you register the bullying with your Area manager by phone or email (email you will have a trail you have done this), you could cc in the manager and then go and speak to them to. Whether they do anything or not you have regstered what has happened.

Think Greyponcho has a great idea in "Give ACAS a call, they're impartial & will give you good advice on what to do next... you might find that your bosses are in a world of trouble."

Re "I can't really say anything back to Bully either as she will turn it all back on me." I suggest you ignore them unless the words they are saying are work related. If they say something in relation to work just act on that bit, if it is asking for something or doing something. RECORD in an email to your Area Manager or boss or ACAS what has been said that was bullying and the way it was said, with date and time.

I think you should do as Greyponcho suggests and raise a grievance against bully. Juts keep really clear records of everything that is said and done.

Good luck, you are not alone, we are listening.

Put everything in an Email.
Advise the area manager and your manager That you are keeping a log of all incidents and their lack of response.
Write down names dates times incidents witnesses etc. Keep it clear and concise. No feelings need to go in there.

Perfect Fishface.

I agree that you should write down the things that she has done, in a factual way, with dates and witnesses.

I am not sure that telling other people at work that you cry a lot is going to be helpful to you. I understand that you are trying to communicate the negative effect of the bully's actions, but there's a danger you could come across as irrational and this be used against you. Ultimately what the bully is responsible for is her own actions and not your reaction, so focus on the former not the latter.

YY to the factual record. Be concise.

Be strong OP

Keep a diary. Times, dates, witnesses, as facual as you can. What actually happened. I think you sadly might need them.

Call ACAS. Are you in a union? If not join one quick.

I would also have a look at your annual appraisals and see if there is anything there about you not being productive enough. Email boss something along the lines of I was surprised that you said I wasn't being productive enough as this has never been raised with me before, neither in conversation nor in annual appraisals. Could you please give me some specific examples of when I have been underproductive, and some measurable goals to work towards, with a time frame. I would CC area manager in that email.

Make sure you dont put a foot wrong. Be at your desk, take the breaks you are entitled to and not a second more. Head down like your DH said. Communicate only in email with boss and bully. If they come and speak to you send an email saying further to our conversation today I am confirming that you requested me to do xyz by such and such a time.

Get hold of your employee handbook. Read up on formal grievances. Read up on disciplinary action. Read up on the PROCESSES in each. So your conversation where the boss told you to stop lazing around, was that an informal warning? Will that be on your record. Ask her in email.

I think they are going to make your life very unpleasant so you need to decide whether to stick it out and fight them (which you can do if they dont follow due process and you do) or if you should just cut your losses and go somewhere else.

Good luck x

Time to take charge. It's ludicrous that colleagues thought you'd get a disciplinary for shouting back. The key word being BACK, you weren't just shouting for the shits & giggles of it, you were responding to the behaviour of a bully.

The fact that it's viewed that way suggests to me that your work place is somewhat toxic and bullying is allowed and tolerated from one / some individuals because 'that's just how they are, they don't mean to be nasty'.

I highly doubt your LM has escalated it seen as your AM never approached you, or if she did she downplayed it as the bully us get friend.

Don't let the LM start to paint you as a negative force in the office who doesn't pull her weight.

You need to write a short email to your AM & Cc in your LM saying something like "I would like to arrange a meeting either today or tomorrow to discuss the bullying I am facing in the office from X.

As I'm sure you'll be aware this has been on going for 4 years and while I have raised it with LM in the past and Xs behaviour towards me would improve when LM had a word with X it hasn't resulted in a permanent change. [this assumes your LM has escalated it to AM but if she hasn't then drops her in it which isn't your problem]

The following are the instances of bullying I have reported over the years and other instances of bullying behaviour I have endured:
[then bullet point behaviour and rough date / time period with whether or not it was reported and what the out come was (but keep it to a sub bullet / single line for each)]

As you'll be aware X was shouting at me in front of colleagues in the office on Y date and due to the intimidation I felt I shouted back, this is not something I wanted to do in the workplace but I felt I had no other choice but to stand up for myself in such an intimidating experience.

I would like us both to be able to work here cooperatively but I feel it has reached a point where I can no longer accept the behaviour from X and need to escalate her bullying behaviour towards me.

Please let me know what time suits you.

Kind regards

OP

No one has said anything to me lately at work which I suppose is a good thing in a way. Bully seems to be keeping her head down as well but occasionally will start. My Manager is the type who wants a peaceful life and as long as work gets done doesn't really care whether we like each other or not. I just feel that it has all been swept under the carpet and that my Manager just seems to be siding with the Bully because Bully is a Assistant Manager. Maybe my Manager thinks that everything has be resolved as I shouted back at Bully so has downplayed it to Area Manager. If they took it seriously I think Area Manager would have been in by now as it has been one week when this incident happened.

So you've got to work in misery because your bosses are ineffectual wet lettuces?
Sod that for a game of soldiers.
Called ACAS or HR yet?

No I haven't called ACAS or HR yet.
Normally my Manager would say something to me but as she hasn't it makes me feel that she has sided with the Bully. Obviously Bully had her say to the Manager as well so maybe Bully exaggerated what happened.

You may feel better to get professional advice and to know exactly where you stand & what your rights are, so if if things continue you know what you can say/do & what options are available to you.
I think knowing this may help you feel better, you've already said it has caused you upset & tears (and be honest with yourself, can you really say that your work situation hasn't had some sort of impact on your personal life? I'd be amazed if it hadn't tbh), so I really urge you to get the advice & get a plan of action - you've suffered long enough & deserve an enjoyable (or at least, non-bullying) work environment!

I think it's sad that it's got to the point where you felt your only response was to shout like that. I hope that your meeting goes well tomorrow. If it was me I'd joy some notes/thoughts about the incidents trust have led to this. Also try to think about how it can be resolved and what you feel needs to happen. Bachs rescue remedy and some mindfulness is also helpful to focus your mind and remain in control. A good glass of wine and a healthy rant at someone friendly is also good for the soul. Wishing you luck

user1473872482 re "My Manager is the type who wants a peaceful life and as long as work gets done doesn't really care whether we like each other or not."

This is not about whether you and your colleagues like each other at all, it is about whether one person is bullying another and her response as a manager to deal with this and manage the workforce. Whether she likes this aspect of her work is neither here nor there! Please make some notes for yourself and get things straight in your own mind. Please do not use phrases like whether people like each other or whether the manager just wants an easy life. Just the facts, what the bully has done, what you have said or done in response. What the manager did or did not do when you told her. Etc etc.

Re "I just feel that it has all been swept under the carpet and that my Manager just seems to be siding with the Bully because Bully is a Assistant Manager." this may well be the case or there ma be other reasons, I think you said before they were on friendly terms. It is not your job to work out why she has not acted, it is your 'job' to note down that despite telling your manager about this she has not sorted it out.

Re "Maybe my Manager thinks that everything has be resolved as I shouted back at Bully so has downplayed it to Area Manager." There is too much second guessing going here on our part. Shouting at someone should not be the measuring stick of whether things are sorted. Please make it clear to manager and Area manager it is not sorted.

Re "If they took it seriously I think Area Manager would have been in by now as it has been one week when this incident happened." Have you emailed area manager today? Have you reminded her that this has not been resolved yet and told her there has been another 'incident'? I think you need to speak to the union or HR and explain that this has not been resolved. But to make sure you could not be accused of not reporting things, please do make sure you have told manager and area manager.

There is too much second guessing going here on your part.

and... please do make sure you have told manager and area manager and have a record of the fact you have told the relevant people.

I would email the area manager and cc your bos

Something along the lines of:

Further to my complaint to my manager (insert name) on (insert date) regarding an issue I am experiencing with a colleague, (insert bully's name) who is continually bullying and intimidating me, I am disappointed that I have received no further communication regarding the issue.

As you are aware, I have had a long standing, serious issue regarding bullying and general intimidation by .....

This has been ongoing for several years, despite repeated attempts by me and my manager (who is copied into this email) to resolve the problem amicably. I have made complaints on many occasions and whilst the matter improved initially, after a very short period of time, her behaviour towards me has once again deteriorated.

In summary, whilst not exhaustive, the following will give you an indication of what I have been subjected to over x number of years

(Insert bullet points of the most distressing issues. Do not be over emotional, or try to list every single action, as this may detract from the most serious issues)

As I am sure you can appreciate, this has become incredibly stressful and is having a negative impact upon my work and private life.

In view of the above, I would therefore like to escalate the issue and make a formal complaint regarding (insert bully's name) and her appalling behaviour towards me,

Could you kindly let me know the relevant process?

I look forward to hearing back from you shortly.

Kind regards

You need need to make this official with HR involved. Your bosses have had 4 years to sort this and haven't.

GOOD NEWS. Area Manager came in today but did not speak to me. She was there before I got in and she gave the Bully a Verbal Warning. Very happy that I got the result that I wanted.

That's wonderful!

That's great, but dont relax. Please keep a diary as I suggested. Please email your boss re examples of laziness. Think of it as insurance. Please.

Glad the area manager finally did something, although I am surprised they didn't actually speak to you about it to find out your side of everything first, or to have not got HR involved...
Enjoy the peace, but stay wary & keep records

Really pleased, user. Agree it's a great idea to keep the journal.

Hope work will feel a bit better now! See, you absolutely were not wrong to shout back