WAS I WRONG TO SHOUT BACK AT WORK BULLY

[user1473872482]

Today I did something that I probably should not have done as it is totally out of character for me. I have been in my job for just over 4 years which has been made miserable by the work bully. I did tell my Manager and the Area Manager 3 years ago and they spoke to the bully. Well since then I have had to speak to my Manager a further 3 times about the bully's behaviour. Today though after keeping quiet for 4 years I stood up for myself and shouted back at the bully and told her she has a attitude problem and is very rude and I will be telling Area Manager of her poor behaviour towards me. She said to me I just spoke to you nicely but I told her not to look at me and to go away and leave me alone. I told my Manager as she asked me what had happened and I explained to her what happened leading up to me shouting back at her. She then straight away got on the phone to Area Manager and told her about situation. My Manager last time I told her said she is on my side and if next time the bully bothers me she will tell Area Manager to sort things out. Was I in the wrong for speaking out and shouting at the Bully?

I suggest planning what you will say, write down the key points of your argument and try to remain calm and professional. It might be worth looking at your work contract so you can refer to it in the meeting, referring to how this bully is breaching the contract in terms of expected behaviour and conduct.
If you know your rights in the work place, you'll feel more confident in making a formal complaint.

Write down some of the things he that have happened, with dates and times if u remember. Try to write about the behaviour, and how u responded as objectively as possible, as tho it was someone else it happened to, not you. If you can make this unemotional, it will illustrate that u are a calm, rational person, and not 'just being touchy', and u can offer it, if someone says it's hard to pin down what the issue is, or similar.
If the bully has ever said anything nasty in writing (eg email), collect these and provide them to your manager, and direct to the area manager (say that ur providing them to help with their investigation).
... and make a log from now on, of any further incidents...

The more u can be calm, helpful and professional, the harder it would be for anyone to suggest it's a mutual personality clash (hopefully they won't anyway, but make it hard for that to happen just to be safe).

You were not wrong to shout. I wish my husband had stood up for himself and shouted back at his manager when he was bullied. He might not have had a nervous breakdown.

Id say yes, I'm perfectly calm. Please can we discuss the bully's behaviour?

P1nk "God, I so, so wish I'd confronted the two bullies in my previous job. Unfortunately I was the CEO "

I am a bit confused, id have thought being the CEO would give you more of a voice than more than junior sleeker so in this situation.

I would have thought that as assistant manager she would be held up to a high standard of communication and should be setting an example for more junior colleagues. It may go against her. I like formidable's answer.

I would not go into any meetings mentioning you shouting or saying I know i shouted etc. Fine if they say it but if you are asked just say 'she shouted x and so I stood up for myself and said Y'. Not that you'll get in trouble for shouting only you may paint yourself as partly in the wrong more and they may not even remember the volume of your voice. Especially as it was out of character for you. You might feel you shouted but really you just raised your voice slightly iyswim.

If the Area Manager or my Boss say are you happy here is it best to answer with Yes but not with Bully's behaviour or No and also if they sort of hint at trying to transfer me to another branch what should I say?

OP if your boss asks if you have calmed down, and you find the longer answers on here hard to recite on the spot, maybe just look at them and say "what do you mean?" just to buy yourself some time and gain the upper hand as it will disarm your boss

OP, I'm really sorry to hear the misery you have been going through last 4 years. Well done for standing up for yourself! The only wrong thing - you waited so long to do it and suffered all that time.

If the number of managers is anything to judge for, your company should be fairly big one and there should be an HR department? Usually decent employers have zero tolerance to bullying policies in place. How is your company doing in this area? Employer has some duties towards employees, e.g., ensuring the safe working environment, also not allowing harassment and discrimination etc. Do you have witnesses of different episodes of that person bullying you? And more importantly, would they speak up if asked about them? If yes, I would seriously consider going to talk to HR about starting a formal grievance procedure. You have talked to your manager about what was going on and she hasn't done anything about it! If the assistant manager is her friend, she could have had a serious sit down and warn her off you. She clearly hasn't done it, so you shouldn't rely too much on your manager finally starting to do her manager's duties.
Starting grievance procedure will mean formal investigation of the episodes you would have described, serious talks with the bully and depending on the investigation's findings - the consequences for the bully.

Your question whether her higher position would have more weight when it comes to your situation. Well, if your employer let's some people to get away with being nasty because they are higher up the ranks than others, it's clearly not an honorable and fair employer and it doesn't deserve any decent people working for it. And let's be honest, last four years have been a complete hell for you, if they are not wanting to sort things out, you shouldn't waste your time with them. Don't forget that getting up in the morning and going to work can (and should) be enjoyable. From what you have said, it's not exactly a place you will remember with a smile on your lips 20 years later.

I think you are in a point where either the situation gets fixed or you should look for a new job. Bullying affects your self esteem, confidence, performance and your career prospects, you have to stop it one way or other before the damage on you is too big. A big hug and lots of strengths and luck.

Also, I would make sure to have the phone ready to record any bullying towards you, that all could come very handy if you do decide start the grievance procedure. If it's on record then there can be no excuses that the witness has misunderstood the context of what was going on etc. The bullies tend to be very well trained to turn the situations upside down and make it even look like it's everyone else is in wrong.

My Manager has spoken to the Bully twice I believe but it settles down and then flares up again.

At the moment I am still feeling very upset by what has happened. Also I feel upset because by shouting back which in a way was wrong of me but also so out of character for me I feel that the Boss may look at me like I am the bad one for shouting back.

As a manager in a medium sized company, I can confirm that
we have zero tolerance towards bullying.

I would advise OP to do two things 1) Start a diary with dates, times etc. of all incidents with the bully, and 2) Raise a formal written grievance with HR that your previous informal attempts to resolve the bullying issue have met with no success.

It goes without saying that your manager was in the wrong for not treating your verbal complaints about bullying more seriously, to protect our company what we do is to automatically instigate the formal grievance procedure automatically whenever a non-trivial verbal issue is raised. It's a lot of work sometimes, but in the end employees do appreciate that they are being treated fairly and with respect.

Any don't worry, once you raise a grievance, you won't lose your job.

Please, OP, don't blame yourself for somebody else treating you bad. I would be very surprised your manager asks you if you have calmed down. Because really what happened today is that over the years you have number of times raised the issue of being bullied at work and she has failed to sort it out, she has failed her moral duty towards you to ensure you have decent working environment, you don't get humiliated and attacked while doing your job. Her telling you to calm down to some extent makes her equally responsible for the harassment. If she really tells you that tomorrow, I would probably reply her in very composed and calm way "how dare you to tell me to calm down when I have been constantly harassed for years and you have known it all along and haven't managed to stop it? What sort of manager are you? Instead of doing your job you have been playing friends with the bully!"

If your issue isn't resolved and you feel as though you're being pacified again, perhaps you could consider a transfer to another branch?

In an ideal world, the bullying would be dealt with, but some offices have questionable politics, particularly if there are friendships among the managers/ assistant managers.

You've endured 4 years of mistreatment and as unfair as it is, maybe it's not worth putting yourself through it? It sounds unbearable and upsetting for you.

No, you were not wrong to shout.

The bully has had this coming for the last 4,years and you finally gave it to her. Well done you.

I agree with other posters telling you to put it all down in writing.
Good luck and well done!

How are things today OP?

Today I went in and my Boss seemed fine with me said good morning as usual. One of my work colleagues asked me if I am feeling better today and I told her a little bit but I was crying lots last night. Area Manager did not come in today as Boss had a hospital appointment so maybe she will be in today.

Still feeling nervous as I don't know how Area Manager normally deals with Bullying at work. I keep saying to my husband that I hope I do not get a warning or transfer or even fired for shouting back and he told me not to be so silly as Bully is the one in the wrong.

One of my work colleagues thinks I may be transferred as she thinks Area Manager will say to me if you are not happy here you will get transferred. I said to her I am happy here and I am not the one in the wrong as it is the first time in four years I have stood up to myself.

Will update later.

You are not serious about getting fired for not letting to humiliate yourself, are you? Unless the Area Manager is a complete nutter, (s)he will not punish you in any way, as it would be a very clear court case and five digit compensation claim from your side. The fact that company has failed to address the bullying issue during four years time already is a problem for them, they will not get into deeper mud by giving you a warning or transferring you.

You seem extremely insecure. Is it because of your personality or it has to do with the way things are in the company (unfair and dodgy)? You have signed a job contract not been sold on slavery for life, you know....

user1473872482 hi how are you doing today.

Bullying can make people feel very insecure and it may be that the OP was quite confident when she started work. IN m y work place we had a lovely very bubbly lady who came to work with us and was a real fire cracker. After being bullied she was really all over the place and it was so tragic.

If this cannot be sorted in a good way for you OP PLEASE take legal advice and please do consider if you would like to work for another company, one that does not treat you like shit.

Find out if you leave your job after four years of bullying, feeling totally pushed out, whether you can sue them. I am not at all the kind who believes in suing about every little thing. Accidents can happen, mistakes can be made, but systematic bullying is not an accident or mistake it is a choice on the part of the bully. You have reported it, it has not been dealt with, you have stood up for yourself and are now at home crying (in your own time in the evening) in fear of being transferred or filed.

PLEASE get some professional advice on this.

fired not filed! Administration error!

Just to update. Area Manager has not been in yet but today I noticed that my Manager did sort of shout at Bully about her behaviour. My Manager has been fine with me as has everyone else. Bully seems to be keeping her head down at work and leaves me alone now - don't know how long that will last for though but hopefully by me shouting back Bully will now realise that I am no pushover.

I do hope so I think you need your area manager to confirm that Bully's behaviour towards you has been unacceptable & won't be tolerated. The last thing you need is for her to decide you've now escalated her war to another level ... or, indeed, to pick on someone else. It will be helpful, I think, if they give her a written warning.