To be just a tiny bit bothered by what I saw at my son's nursery this morning?

[KingofnightvisionKingofinsight]

My 3-year-old DS just started at a new nursery. The teachers are lovely and kind and DS seems happy, and obviously that's most important. But anyway...

This morning at dropoff DS wanted me to stay for a few minutes so I did. I watched him sit down at a craft table set with lovely materials including glue, glitter, scraps of fabric and cotton wool, and small yellow paper circles. My DS spent several minutes carefully applying dumping half a bottle of glue to a good portion of his paper, and then he asked the teacher to pass him some glitter. She very sweetly encouraged him to put more glue on other parts of the paper first, which he did, and then she gave him the glitter. A minute later she gave him a yellow circle. He started to glue it at the bottom of the paper, but she gently corrected him, saying that the sun belongs at the top. She then pointed to a sample project that had been made. It was a picture of the beach, with an ocean of blue fabric scraps and glitter, cotton clouds, and in the top right corner a yellow paper sun. My DS dutifully copied the sample picture and proudly showed me his beach.

AIBU to be a little sad that the nursery is giving the kids the idea of what to make and even showing them something to copy? Why can't they just put out the materials and let them create? I'm wondering if this is always the nursery's approach to art or if it's just this particular teacher. She is otherwise lovely so it's not like I would dislike her for this, but if this always how art and creativity are managed at the school it does give me a bit of pause. If it is I would still be happy with the school but I think I would like to engage them a bit (in a friendly, non-demanding way) about their reasons and figure out how it impacts other areas of the curriculum.

AIBU?

math you do realise don't you that most 'teaching approaches' (doctrines) have been backed by research ...even disastrous ones. And at the time a lot of people were convinced the current research was correct...
With something like education there are so many variables - background, intelligence levels, previous experiences, environment, changes in circumstances, other cultural influences -as well as the time frames involved - and how do you measure success? (especially in art)
I will say again -currently heavily focused on child led learning in Scotland - the attainment gap is definitely widening. So it is either being badly implemented but just in the schools with a catchment from more deprived areas - or it works but only for children from less deprived areas with perhaps more involved parents and diverse experiences outside school.

'Safe to say if nightmonkey was my DCs headteacher we'd be having a fair few 'discussions' about teaching methods....'

Aimed personally at me and the job I do, I would suggest Mangomay. Also been a vast number of people who agree with me, but like some others on here, you appear to be quite selective in your focus on only those who agree with you. Not sure why you've put 'headteacher' in quotes, but again, I got accused of having no respect for childcare practitioners, which is utter nonsense by the way and I've not said anything of the sort, for doing the same. Talk about double standards. I am sure you are doing an excellent job, the myriad of people I deal with on a daily basis tell me I am also...

Yes, I mentioned you by name, but only to point out that if you happened to be the headteacher at my DCs school, I could imagine a lot of situations where I'd be requesting a meeting with you, regarding your attitudes to teaching and learning.

And I think it's safe to say the majority of posters who have agreed with the OP have a lot of experience in Early Years education, which is what this thread was started to discuss.

Uurgh hideous. I hate this prescriptive approach to creating a picture. Nursery should be about exploring processes not the end product. He should have been allowed to explore the resources and create in any way he wanted, then afterwards if they were really set on every child producing a beach scene that objective should have been made clear to him.

It's poor practice, probably the teacher feels the same but the directive is coming from top down pressure to create beautiful artwork that the head can understand, rather than allowing the child to express themselves.

mangomay, I can imagine you are the type of parent who would be doing that with almost any headteacher. Nightmare parent scenario, the kind we in the teaching profession spend far too much of our precious time trying to placate/defend ourselves to/feel forced to explain why we are doing what we are doing to. But that is an occupational hazard. All I can say is from years of experience, the children of parents like you are usually the ones who have the most difficulties in school in the future...but each to their own as they say.

ps. I would probably advise you to move your DC to a different school if you had that many issues regarding the school's attitudes to teaching and learning, as would most in a similar role. You could then become that parent who keeps moving their child from school to school, relentlessly finding fault, never satisfied, never willing to work with the school or compromise...there are many out there unfortunately. They usually end up homeschooling. Or maybe not mangomay, who knows?

Oi! Less of the home schooling insults! Most parents who home educate are reasonable ordinary people who are making the choice they feel is right for their child, sometimes after much heartache trying to access help there isn't funding to provide.

unlucky bear in mind that coming first in an attainment assessment is no indication of a child who is emotional doing better or an indication of who will be doing better in ten years.

emotionally

I actually don't think you're being unfair! I thought creative activities were a way of expressing yourself! Which is why that category on the eyfs is called expressive arts and design. If all the children's pictures looked the same it would be extremely boring!!! There's nothing on the eyfs saying they should be able to copy and adults work. I'd mention it to his key worker x

gonetoseeaman (great name!). Wasn't meant as an insult, simply an observation. Blimey, and I get accused of taking everything personally!

nightmonkey my DD is in year 5, DS in year 3. I have once, I repeat ONCE been in to speak to the headteacher. That was when I felt DD was falling behind in numeracy because they had 5 different class teachers that year. HT agreed with me, said that a few children were and we came up with an agreed plan to help DD catch up again. It involved me doing extra at home with her, and the HT taking DD and 4 of her classmates (all higher achievers) out of class once a week for a numeracy booster class. As I left her office, HT said to me 'it's so refreshing to see a parent so interested in their child's education'.

Yep, I'm a nightmare parent, for sure.

Having read a few other threads you're on, you quite clearly have real disdain for anyone who is ever remotely interested in their child's wellbeing. Calling parents who don't like keeping their kids up late 'precious' etc. Are you honestly a headteacher?! Because you don't seem like a very nice person, especially when you're being challenged.

Also, the sly little digs/snarky comments/general bitchiness are getting old now. The other posters you were insulting have stopped commenting, so you've moved on to me. Give it a rest, seriously.

Expecting a representational picture from a 3 year old is a bit like me expecting my 9 month old to build a house with Sticklebricks, rather than put them in her mouth and bash them together isn't it? It's the stage of playing with the materials, so they're doing a painting, not a painting of something.

I'd rather see a display of paint splodges than something created with too much adult help, but obviously plenty of people want a 'proper' picture - from their kids and also from professonal artists.

Thanks for the concern nightmonkey, but I'm far from insecure as a parent.

MrsMummy probably left because she kept having posts deleted. You, presumably, don't have the self respect to do that. Jog on now. Take your vitriolic posts off to another thread.

P.S. Talking of BS, I call BS on your 'dealing with kids who go through hell every day', but have also worked in early years right up to sixth form and am also a headteacher story. No teacher in the world has as much contempt for parents as you seem to.

Bye now dear.

So, what are you Nightmonkey? A head teacher of a school? What experience do you have with nursery age children?

No TiggyD, a farmyard.

Actually I'm a plumber named Dave. ROFL

For goodness sake, stop saying you feel sorry for my kids. It's the 3rd time you've made a comment about my 'poor' children and what a terrible life they must have with me as a mother, and how awful their futures will be. You're horrible! Just stop it. You don't know me, or the kind of parent that I am, but my children are just fine thank you.

I'm far from jealous dear, I've no desire to be a headteacher. I'm perfectly happy running my own little nursery setting, only having 5 staff to manage and having the time and energy to concentrate on doing things in a way that genuinely benefits the children I care for. I haven't (as yet) turned into a venom-spewing, cynical, parent hating, best practice denier! I called BS on your headteacher claim because in all my life, I've never known a headteacher to be posting on MN, or any other social media site at 11:40am! Not a very productive use of your time now, is it?!
And I've never personally attacked you, or your children for that matter. Have a look back at who all the personal attacks are coming from. I'll save you the bother...it's you!!! Surprise surprise.

You telling everyone else to lighten up is a joke. You're about as light as an elephant with a lead weight around his neck.

Now seriously go away. And when you get there, go away again, keep going until you reach the furthest place you could possibly get to. And then stay there please. Thanks.

Not actually losing my temper though, am I? Not worth it for a troll.