To upset my parents by asking them to clean their filthy house

[Oysterbabe]

My parents are lovely people but they live in squalor and always have. The house is full of animals; several cats, an enormous long-haired dog, parrots flying free range and that's just in the house. In the paddock they have all manner of creatures. There is grime and dirt everywhere. Everyone wears their shoes inside as if they didn't their socks would be black within minutes from the dirt on the floor. It was always like this when I was growing up and I thought it was pretty normal until I moved away at 18 and realised no one else lived in a house like this. Until recent years they've been healthy and able-bodied. My dad had a stroke a couple of years ago so is a bit more sedentary now but it's no worse than usual. They could afford a cleaner if they wanted one.

Anyway it was never a massive deal, just how they choose to live. A bit embarrassing taking my now husband there for the first time but meh, whatever. They live 200 miles away and we only visit a few times a year. They live in a very rural location, there are no hotels nearby so we just stay there and put up with it.

We now have an 8 month DD. Last time we took her she was 3 months old and we just held her the whole time and insisted that the massive, untrained dog was always shut away and the birds caged. We're visiting again in a couple of months and DD will almost certainly be crawling by then. Even now she doesn't really like being held and likes sitting on the floor surrounded by toys. I don't know how we'll keep her off the floor for 3 days.

The main problem is that DM doesn't think the house is dirty, will be incredibly offended at the suggestion that it is and will certainly cry. I have tried to gently suggest the place could do with a bit of a clean in the past and it did not go well. I can't stand the idea of upsetting her like that But I genuinely believe DD could be at risk crawling around there. They come straight in from walking around in shit in the paddock and shoes stay on. How can I raise this in the most sensitive way?

Could you invent an allergy your dd has recently developed it you discovered it when you visited friend with cat so suggest she hoovers /cleans before you get there ? Or you stay elsewhere because of big dog your parents sound like animal hoarders and its a sensitive subject for you to bring up.

A playpen/ travel cot (in a bird free room) will be fine for a couple of days, what nonsense that using one is the OP not putting her dd first! why should she have to upset her parents (and probably herself) by having this tricky conversation?

I think travel cot this time, and as much time as possible spent outside the house!, in future maybe you need to go down the camper van route or something, until dd is older.

Oh Pp have suggested allergies already sorry but still do that

My parents know how worried I am about the dog so he is shut in another part of the house and also has the run of the outside space. He's a food aggressive, husky cross who has never met a baby. A condition of me bringing her last time was that there was always at least 2 closed doors between them and either DH or I must always be with her. The same will apply if we go this time, one of us will always be close enough to scoop DD up within a second.

I know it sounds like a nightmare environment, and it really is, the more I write about it the less possible the visit seems. I know that I need to talk to my parents and sort something out. I also know that my siblings will think I'm being over the top. But as a pp said, they live close enough that they've never had to visit for very long!

The birds would be the deal breaker for me.

That stuff (especially dried poo) is so fucking dangerous. No way I'd expose myself let alone a small child.

And don't forget if you try to wipe up, it's going to swirl up in the air, making it even more dangerous.

If you can stay with your brother then do so!

Woulds they rather you not go at all?

Of course your sister will shrug & say it's OK as she chose/chooses to go there.

If you don't want to stay, then don't.

What does your husband think?

It soulds like more bother than it is worth.

Really amazed that anyone suggests texting emotionally difficult things .

Also the idea of faking an allergy. 'Oh look, she's picked up a bird shit and nothing has happened! Are you sure about that doctor?'

The way they live is their business. The way you look after your DD is yours.

I would go and see them alone and have the conversation. DD and dh stay at home.

If there is a big family gathering for your dad's birthday could you use that as an excuse to clean up? If not I would do the chat and clean - so casually wipe surfaces/do the washing up whilst keeping a conversation going. Or attach to cleaning cloths to dds knees and she can clean while she crawls
I have the opposite problem in that my dms house is so immaculate and full of low placed knick knacks I'm terrified of taking my dc there in case they make a mess or break something.

My mums house is the same. I point black refused to take my child there until she cleaned the house. My child is almost 4 and she still hasn't cleaned it. I'm standing firm because it's so cluttered it's not safe for a child.

My DP and his sister recently had to do this with their dad. SIL worded it really politely and apologised profusely but they didn't speak to any or us for a month and now we hardly see them. They have not done anything about the mess, in fact, they've only got more pets, and both DP and SIL won't go round there. Obviously I understand their embarrassment, but if that were me it would spur me on to do something. DP and SIL weren't on great terms anyway so she just bit the bullet, I think had they been closer she probably wouldn't have said what she did. So what I'm trying to say is, even if you did say something, which you're entitled to if you feel like it's dangerous for your DC, that they may not even do anything anyway. Good luck!

I have relatives like that - ones who can definitely afford a cleaner as well. Do you think if you asked them too clean the house they would manage to do so? My relatives would proudly say that they've cleaned and in reality it doesn't look much better.
Have not read full thread but obviously your DD is going to get more mobile and the house less safe .

Can you stay in a hotel? or with your siblings?

just read the bit where you say you mum is Hagrid - she does sound funny but probably very frustrating for you

We have this with my.dad and his partner. 30+ cats, 3 dogs, rabbits and God knows what else. We have solved the problem but not taking the children to visit them.they come to us or we meet on neutral ground. I just couldn't do it.

Say you need your own space, stay in a B&B nearby and meet them out of the house when possible. Be assertive (read books on this if necessary) and stick to your guns. Your parents have their ways, you have yours. You have every right to do what's best for you and your family. You don't need to get into tricky discussions. Just say what you've decided.

I know this isn't really what you want to hear, but your parents' 'squalor' is probably the best thing ever for your baby's immune system and gut micro biome.

There are countless studies that state that children who grow up on farms and around animals have much less illness and far superior immune systems. The window of opportunity is until they are 3 years old - after that the gut biome becomes pretty fixed.

This, absolutely! I was just coming on to say more-or-less the same but Beryl beat me to it. Our GP reckons the healthiest kids are ones that grew up on farms with animal poo everywhere.

[slightly disagree about the gut biome being fixed at 3, but that's a minor point!]

Our GP reckons the healthiest kids are ones that grew up on farms with animal poo everywhere.

Yes, but the OP's child is NOT growing up in these conditions; she would have to suddenly cope with a totally different set of microorganisms.

I am all for a bit of dirt eating in young children and am a great believer in the Old Friends Theory, but this is taking it a bit far, even for me.

Hmm, oysterbabe, there is a food aggressive husky cross in the house that has never met the baby?? I'd be very concerned about your child's safety...and I own a big, bouncy Boxer! Combine said dog with parrots flying free? And farm poop underfoot? Not a chance. My mum is a hoarder. Really quite bad (it's the flip side of OCD and linked to anxiety). I've already told her that we will not be staying with her (when we travel halfway around the world in two months for a visit with PFB). Don't put your baby at risk. Just don't. Be honest yet kind, and stay somewhere else. Your parents may be sad (my mum is), but they're not going to change their ways. Not for you. Not for anyone. Your mum sounds like she collects/hoards animals... I know it is tough. I'm sorry.

Had this experience when visiting my parents with my 18month old DD abroad a few years ago. There was built up grime on kitchen chairs, STUFF everywhere etc. Both my 2 year old DD & I got really ill about 24hours after arriving.

Our GP reckons the healthiest kids are ones that grew up on farms with animal poo everywhere.

(I'm a scientist) yes this is true - but the situation here isn't akin to growing up on a farm or in a house with a few pets. It's old poo, caked into carpets - that allows time for eggs and cysts to hatch. It's bird poo - which is really awful stuff, carrying horrors like psittacosis, dried and airbourne. To a child with no previous exposure.

I'm all for letting kids play in the dirt, handle pets etc, but there's healthy muck and biohazard, and frankly this house sounds like the latter. The birds and the aggressive dog alone would be a no no for me.

Just don't go.

You won't change them.

If you want to see them, hire a motor home as a clean place to sleep, or meet them at a self catering cottage half way.

There is absolutely no way I'd take a baby, or indeed myself, into that level of filth.

I'd be frank with them. Just say I'm really sorry but since dd has started crawling I need everywhere she can access to be child friendly, clean and safe. Last time I came it wasn't suitable for her. Has anything changed since we've last been round? Then I'm afraid we can't come to your house, we're going to stay with DB as his place is more child friendly. We can have a day out at the beach/farm etc instead.
Re family gathering why will it happen in their house if it's such a state? I'd be embarrassed having family round it my house looked like that..

My understanding of the development of the microbiome is that, yes, being outdoors a lot and around animals is healthy, but there is no advantage to living in unsanitary conditions. Most farmers practice good hygiene, take off boots on entering the house, wash hands etc.
This sounds like a different league altogether.
Being exposed to something like VTEC is no advantage to your small child's immune system.
Unfortunately, the 'hygiene hypothesis' has led to a lot of people thinking that good hygiene is unimportant or somehow bad for you.
Pacific makes a very good point that your daughter has not grown up in this environment and is more at risk of picking up something nasty.

To be fair to them, my siblings and I have always been very healthy and never get ill. As others have said though, DD isn't used to it.

Party will likely be at theirs as they have the most space and there are a lot of us, there will be 7 kids there but the next youngest after DD is 7 so they're well past the crawling stage. They don't think there's anything wrong with the house and we're all very used to it.

I think I will have to stay with my brother and just visit for the party during which DD will have to be carried or in the travel cot. We should be able to cope for a few hours...?

People who live in what others might see as squalor cannot live in any other way. That seems to be the case. It is hard for others to visit but it would be equally hard - or impossible - for them to change overnight, if ever. It's not that simple.