To upset my parents by asking them to clean their filthy house

[Oysterbabe]

My parents are lovely people but they live in squalor and always have. The house is full of animals; several cats, an enormous long-haired dog, parrots flying free range and that's just in the house. In the paddock they have all manner of creatures. There is grime and dirt everywhere. Everyone wears their shoes inside as if they didn't their socks would be black within minutes from the dirt on the floor. It was always like this when I was growing up and I thought it was pretty normal until I moved away at 18 and realised no one else lived in a house like this. Until recent years they've been healthy and able-bodied. My dad had a stroke a couple of years ago so is a bit more sedentary now but it's no worse than usual. They could afford a cleaner if they wanted one.

Anyway it was never a massive deal, just how they choose to live. A bit embarrassing taking my now husband there for the first time but meh, whatever. They live 200 miles away and we only visit a few times a year. They live in a very rural location, there are no hotels nearby so we just stay there and put up with it.

We now have an 8 month DD. Last time we took her she was 3 months old and we just held her the whole time and insisted that the massive, untrained dog was always shut away and the birds caged. We're visiting again in a couple of months and DD will almost certainly be crawling by then. Even now she doesn't really like being held and likes sitting on the floor surrounded by toys. I don't know how we'll keep her off the floor for 3 days.

The main problem is that DM doesn't think the house is dirty, will be incredibly offended at the suggestion that it is and will certainly cry. I have tried to gently suggest the place could do with a bit of a clean in the past and it did not go well. I can't stand the idea of upsetting her like that But I genuinely believe DD could be at risk crawling around there. They come straight in from walking around in shit in the paddock and shoes stay on. How can I raise this in the most sensitive way?

Yes to the travel cot / travel playpen. Will keep her off the floor, safe from the horrible dog, and contain her and her toys so that the gparents don't trip on them. But you are only moving the problem down the line to when baby is crawling and walking!

Thanks for the input so far. I'm just cooking and doing bedtime so will read back and respond in a bit.

You have my sympathies, my PIL are like this! Thankfully we travel there and back in a day. When my two were very little we used to leave them in car, say there was no point getting them out and take PIL out for lunch. Not so bad now but I wet wipe like mad when we leave! I think given your circumstances blunt is best and simply say that given the floor crawling is not possible so a hotel might be best. Maybe this will prompt them to clean a little!

I am immaculately clean as is my side of the family, DH side is manky, two smelly dogs and a cat, Highly unlikely your DC will suffer.

Well mine are still alive with no ailments and have made it to adulthood.

They didn't have parrots though

I think you can broach the subject again. I have only skimmed the thread so apologies if I've missed something.

Say you're worried about DD putting things in her mouth (not just poo!) so could you ask your mum to give just 1 room (the living room?) a really good clean (and you'll need space for a playpen, if appropriate). Say you know it's difficult because they love having their pets around but you don't want to be stressed out about DD during your visit.

Any chance of that working? It's been a long time since your mum had small, crawling kids around so it may be worth reminding her.

Please nobody think that antibac wipes actually render a dirty surface safe - one of the biggest cons of our age.
Water and soap and elbow grease - likely repeatedly if things are as bad as described - will achieve more than any amount of anti-bacterial products.

And, again, none of this will do anything about airborne bugs.

They didn't have parrots though I couldn't cope with the parrots

I could've written this about my ILs. Now DH wants DS to stay with them whilst we go away on our own, and I'm going to spend the entire time worrying he'll get food poisoning from the piles of cat puke and dead animals IN THE PANTRY and the fridge that hasn't been cleaned in over 20 years.

I'd ask them to baby proof a room.

Could you knock up something on Word about clearing away clutter, chocking hazards, old food and poo. Keeping animals out the way.

Then send them the 'how to babyproof' document which the health visitor 'left' you, and mutter stuff about guidelines changing all the time but wanting to do things 'by the book'.

If the floor had been hoovered I'd let my baby play on it. I let her play on the floor in public buildings and on the grass in the park. Their bound to be covered in poo and other grim.

Tough one. My mums house was never anywhere near as filthy sounding as that and she has a similar situation with my older siblings and her first grandchildren. My brother and his (OCD) wife chose to stay at my aunties/mums sisters when they visited. My mum never knew why and was always hurt. My sister and brother and spouses decided to talk to my mum about her house being dirty and not wanting to take the kids to stay, and came up with a plan to offer to pay for a cleaner for her etc but the conversation went a by wrong and unplanned and it was only my BIL that said anything and my mum was very very very upset and hurt and she still think he is a bastard and she still doesn't know everyone else thought the same and that is why my brother and wife stayed with other family.

The difference you have is the animal faeces. That really is a hazard to a baby. I'd maybe send a text to your mum saying baby puts absolutely everything in her mouth at the moment and you read about bird faeces in houses and as a first time parent you are feeling really anxious about it. Would it be possibly to keep a downstairs room animal free, and have it deep cleaned in advance at your expense?

*you read about bird faeces in houses and salmonella in children

I'm pretty lax about kids crawling around on other peoples floor, gobbling on playgroup toys, chewing suoermarket handles etc, op I think you have to be or you'd be a nervous wreck.

However, I wouldn't go to your parents - especially not with the parrots & how ill bird dirt can make you. It'll be hell on earth trying to make sure she's not putting anything in her mouth.

Sometimes people get upset, it's life. Your parents will either have to visit you or clean up, properly.

Sorry to hear this, it's tricky for you. From what you've said, I'm afraid I wouldn't be staying and I'd tell them why. The studies about kids growing up with better immune systems because they grew up around animals isn't the same; lots of people have animals/live on farms and have clean houses. Good luck.

I suggest you all meet and stay together at a holiday cottage!

They probably never go on hols, b/c can't get anyone to mind all the animals that would be left behind.

OP if you stay with your DPs then they are going to continue thinking there's nothing wrong with the state of their house.
If you say something, I think it unlikely they would change. In this situation I would put my foot down & refuse to visit their house, that is more likely to result in changes or at least a clear message that their house is unacceptably filthy & no place for small children.

I'm a bit [hmmm] at PPs pointing to studies about being around animals & better immune systems. As Clementine said, plenty of people grow up around animals but still have clean houses (& good immune systems!)
You need to put your DD first, for her health & well being.

Thanks everyone.

I really do need to visit as my dad is turning 70 and we see them so infrequently. There will be some kind of family gathering, the location of which is unconfirmed but likely to be my parents' house.

I have 2 siblings who live nearby. I did mention my concerns to my SIL and she just sort of shrugged and said that her girls survived. I could stay with my brother but the issue is that I have always stayed with my parents. They would be offended if I didn't and I'd have to tell them the reasons why anyway, I'm not sure the conversation can be avoided.

We'll be taking a travel cot anyway so that's a good idea. Maybe I'll have to trial her playing in it before and see how long I can go without putting her on the ground!

My mum is basically Hagrid. She has acquired a different creature every time I speak to her. The parrots are pretty to look at but sooooo annoying. They land on you and scream "Shut up!" in your face. You can tell a lot about their personalities by the words that they say "Shut up! Stop it! Get off! Ouch!"

Those saying that animals in a house are good for the immune system:

Yes, a cat. A dog, growing up on a farm, with animals outdoors and a well scrubbed kitchen. Playing in the garden. That's healthy.

Ground in, aged poo is not - eggs and cysts have time to hatch, for example. Birds are really, really bad for zoonotic disease. Parrots carry all sorts of absolutely awful stuff like mycoplasma and a bacterium that can cause an almost untreatable lung condition, psittacosis. Summary here for anyone who thinks keeping birds indoors is a good idea : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psittacosis

Op, your parents can't clean the place - it'll need a deep clean from professionals, and frankly, getting rid of most of the animals (and soft furnishings.)

Assuming you don't want to hurt their feelings, an allergy to feathers or fur could be a good excuse (you went to a friend's place who had a cat and dd just was a state after...)

Longer term, you're going to have to have some hard conversations about their lifestyle and their welfare (and that of the animals) as they age,

OP the thing that would worry me most is the untrained dog. How feasible is it to keep the dog away from your baby at all times for three days?

YY to allergies as a tactful way of avoiding staying there.

Osyster you seem to be really wanting the playpen idea to work - why because it will avoid the necessary chat with you parents or finding another solution like staying with your brother. If your sister lives nearby I bet she solved it at the crawling stage by avoidance, short visits and trips out. She was never in a position of having to stay?
I have no doubt the playpen idea just won't work. Some babies suddenly just get moving , just your luck if it happens then! Your child will get frustrated whatever as not being able to do their normal play, trapped in a cot for 3 days.
Get a grip and put your child first , stop thinking oh but they will be upset if I don't stay.... Etc..etc..and make some decisions. How does your DH feel about all of this because given the inevitable difficult decisions you need to support each other.

Is it possible to hire a motor home or caravan?

My GP's were farmers. There was often a chicken on the table. It was pretty clean. I grew up in a "healthy" farming environment and was a snotty, sickly child.

Don't know if I missed a reply somewhere but why can you not use a playpen or blow up paddling pool?
The birds you may have to ask for them to be caged/kept in another room as you/DD/DH seem to have become slightly allergic to them?

I don't envy you! It cannot be a great experience having to stay in a filthy house with a young child but I think it would be really mean to say anything to DM about it especially if you think it would upset her.

Crap sorry OP there are 4 pages not one, on phone and just went straight to last page