Large Families

[Czerny88]

I'm trying to understand the psychology behind people having large families (by which I mean anything over three children, I guess). NB I'm thinking about people in the 21st century, in the West, with access to contraception and low infant mortality, who don't belong to a culture where it is particularly encouraged to have a large number of children, such as Judaism. And obviously there are circumstances such as multiple births which don't apply.

My visceral feeling is that it is often wrong on many levels. In attempting to enunciate why, I would say people should not have more children than they can afford, than they have time to care for, than can fit comfortably in their living accommodation.

And even in the case where the parents are very wealthy, have a huge house and extra support such as a nanny, there is still the hugely important issue of over-population. It feels like we are at capacity already, without room to increase the population by the amount would result by every couple having even three children.

I'm trying not to be too goady or right-wing, and I have personal reasons for the way I feel (I am involuntarily childless) so please don't be too harsh, but it's something I struggle with ideologically as well as emotionally.

So... AIBU to think that people should be more responsible about how many children they produce and not act solely on their own desires regardless of the potential effects on others? Or is that an unrealistic, draconian expectation?

I have 4. I initially started off wanting 2 but they were so gorgoeous i agreed with DH that 4 was better.
We get no benefits (inc child benefit) the dc each have their own room and are all/ have been privately educated so very little drain on the economy. We both work in the public sector too so give back to society on a daily basis as well as in charitable work.
We also aim to have a lowish impact on the environment, we grow most of our own fruit and vegetables, dont buy a lot of random stuff, do not fly excessively etc.
Most importantly though we have an aging population in the uk. My kids will not only fund your pensions, but also look after you ( studying for professional degress at uni that are essential in society)

poster mathanxiety Sat 10-Sep-16 20:45:31

As each child gets older you get more adept at dealing with things

You get quicker at the partical tasks I can change a nappy standing up with out removing the trousers 😁

And less worried but scrapped knees Ect less fussy about people offering you seconed hand bits and know what things are essential and what's just being touted by the baby mags and you don't really need

I stuggle with lack of sleep by the youngers are babies that wil pass

I used to worry about how people views me as a mother I been though adoption process twice now so I don't give a shit I know and have the paperwork to prove it I am made of the good stuff

poster Sara107 Sat 10-Sep-16 21:21:15

I hate the summer Hoildays and can't wait for them to end 😁 I moan about my kids loads

But love them dearly and wouldn't have gone thou 3 years of being probed by ss if I didn't

Personally I find those who are not that well off know they are limited in what they can provide their children (eg unable to afford holidays at all whereas another family may feel that is a thing they would sacrifice with a 3rd or 4th child) but a larger, loving family with a roof over their heads and food on the table is within their means. DC growing up to go to university is so far from the norm for poorer families that it would not enter people's heads when considering what needs to be provided for in future (not judgy, that was/is my experience). I had a longing for a large family having grown up in one, it was great always having siblings and cousins around to play with and confide in and later to flatshare with rather than a random. As it is I didn't meet DH until I was older, we have one DC and hope for a second but given more time I would have liked four. I can comfort myself with the environmental benefits of a smaller family.

Haven't read the whole thread but I don't particularly care how many children people want to have, but what does piss me off is parents who have several children who then complain that their kids are squabbling, they've got no time to themselves, haven't got any money and they can't wait until the kids go back to school etc. You chose to have them for crying out loud. Of the four large families (4+ kids) I personally know, only one seems genuinely happy, the others seem permanently stressed out. I don't doubt they aren't all loved, but I do wonder, if they could turn back time if they'd still choose to have a large family.

*Don't doubt they ARE all loved...

I meant no offence to those who have lots of children re: my spending individual time comment. I merely was thinking even with those who work unsociable hours there will be times like holidays, Christmas etc I hope they can spend a bit of extra time with their DC. Also working can't be avoided whereas not being able to spend time individually with 9 children, for example.

I do think it depends on ages though.

7 with a 20 year age span wouldn't be as problematic as 7 over 12 years, for example.

I mean this with no disrespect but if you've known your whole life that you couldn't have children you'd see the exercise as hypothetical so wouldn't necessarily consider how many you wanted, as you'd be working on an impossibility.

All the same I am sorry that the choice has been taken away from you.

Enkop That is very interesting, as I thought it was fairly dispassionate! I knew it was going to be contentious, but it was a genuine question and not simply a rant.

I think when you make statements like.

but it's something I struggle with ideologically as well as emotionally.

and

AIBU to think that people should be more responsible about how many children they produce and not act solely on their own desires regardless of the potential effects on others?

Then you have an emotional post.

Yes indeed, Pleasemothermay1 - I quoted a poster who thought larger families meant insurmountable problems caused by scale, but actually the opposite is true.

Hand me downs and carpooling are great for the environment, and children learn a lot about getting on with others when they live in a busy environment.

I come from a large family and grew up surrounded by love and joy. I have always wanted a large family of my own but met my dp too late and can't comfortably afford as many kids as I'd like. But for me, people are what life is about. We're here to love and share.

Like another OP said, in my very large family I don't particularly remember spending one-on-one time with my parents but I really don't think this was a thing in the 80s, was it?

People say that kids really need that individual attention but I would have, and stil do, find it suffocating. In fact, some of my friends with only two children place so much emphasis on every single, tiny decision they make for their children that I can't see how it's really good for them emotionally. Some of them above already decided on career paths for their chords who are at primary school. Growing up in a large family meant we never felt any pressure at all to succeed individually to fulfil my parents' dreams and yet, despite growing up poor, we've all massively over-achieved academically and in terms of our families (all married, happy, settled, not a broken marriage between us all). I think that's as a direct result of having very strong emotional bonds with our siblings, and of being given independence and he freedom to prove.

I think what I'm trying to say is good parents are good parents however many kids they have, and shit parents are shit parents however many they have.

It's not about how many children younger u have its about your skill set as
Mother so,e Polegl can't cope with 4 but they also may not be able to cope with two

My sil has 3 children she couldn't cope with one very well she can't cope with 3 very well either she is very nervy

Meh, I wish someone had sent the 3 children memo to my ovaries, number 3 turned into 3&4.

Mumontherun what a nasty post

I have 4 and we're all really happy with that choice. Don't believe we're overpopulated either...its our behaviour on our planet which is the issue.

I'm trying to say this kindly OP, but perhaps subconsciously there's part of you feeling a larger family have taken your 'quota' of children? A close friend of mine was rather hostile for years until confessing this was how she felt about my family

My visceral feeling is that it is often wrong on many levels. In attempting to enunciate why, I would say people should not have more children than they can afford, than they have time to care for, than can fit comfortably in their living accommodation.

I have a large family: I can afford them, I have time to care for them, and can fit them in just fine. You have a problem with that and come on here telling me my childrens existence is "wrong on many levels" and what me to be nice to you about it?
Fuck off. It's not your business and you should keep your opinions on other peoples family to yourself.

OP, for me I have a longing to have children, I just want them and think it's a hormonal thing that will go with menopause. I don't have more than a sensible amount, but that's a head over heart thing and a sensible DH!

Both my parents and PILs had large families and it was the mothers not wanting to stop - again, an urge to have kids. I think it's nature and like a reflex for some women (but obviously not all of them).

I'm not worried about having more than 2 in terms of environmental impact, I think that's because I see many more older people than younger ones around me, but also I see the lack of choice for many groups of women (through education, religion and controlling men) as a far bigger issue for population control.

I agree that one to one time was not a thing in the 80's! I hadn't really thought about it until Janice's post, but I grew up in the 80's and rarely saw my parents alone (eldest of 2 sisters), nor was it something I remember particularly craving. That said, I am not that close to my parents - maybe it was the way they were, rather than the culture at the time.

As the mother of 3dc, I do, at times, find it overwhelming, but it is far more lovely than anything else. I do try and spend time with each of them alone, but quite often they would rather be all together. I have found it harder since they have all started school, which I wasn't expecting. I hope very much that they grow up feeling part of a larger than average, very happy family - fingers crossed. I've had a crap year this year (lost a parent) and I know it has impacted upon them, but ultimately this is life and you can't shield them from it completely. I hope they won't much remember the year when mummy was sad a lot and will focus on the ones where I was more on form!

1. Contraception doesn't always work
2. Sometimes you conceive more than one baby
3. What happens in someone else's uterus is nothing to do with you unless you put it there. (Even then, it's only if she chooses to let you know...)

I have 2 dc and I am astonished by larger families. This is just because we couldn't manage it or afford it ourselves - but obviously many others can. I am in awe of parents of 3+ children who do a good job! Dh initially wanted 3dc but changed his mind when he found out how consuming they are. I have a close friend who's chosen to have just one child, even though they have plenty of money and both her and her Dh just work part time - and they are fabulous parents! I think it's just a feeling of how many children you want, if you're lucky enough to be able to choose. It can be hard to articulate, as can the feeling of whether you want children at all.

If people are worried about the planet at all, the best thing they can do is stop having children. If the humans were wiped out, the planet would be just fine. So, whether it's because of the cars we drive or the number of children we have, we should be aware that humans cause damage to the planet.

Part of how we live is due to the ideology we grow up in. Until a couple of months ago I worked with a Chinese woman. We live in the US, and her husband is American. She left to have a baby and was very clear in her mind that she would only be having one child (she may change her mind) because that's how many children feels 'right' to her. She has been replaced by a new Chinese woman (they teach Chinese in a school) who has one child, about 9 years old, who has the same feeling - that one child feels 'right' for her.

So - why do people with bigger families feel that this is their 'feeling right' number?

Child benefit? Lotz

Arseicle

Spot on.

I'm number 3 of 8 children, personally I have no idea why anyone would want that many children, as far as I can see its hectic and a lot of work.

It's definitely not a choice I would make for me BUT I wouldn't judge someone else for making that choice, wonder how on earth they cope maybe, but not judge.