Large Families

[Czerny88]

I'm trying to understand the psychology behind people having large families (by which I mean anything over three children, I guess). NB I'm thinking about people in the 21st century, in the West, with access to contraception and low infant mortality, who don't belong to a culture where it is particularly encouraged to have a large number of children, such as Judaism. And obviously there are circumstances such as multiple births which don't apply.

My visceral feeling is that it is often wrong on many levels. In attempting to enunciate why, I would say people should not have more children than they can afford, than they have time to care for, than can fit comfortably in their living accommodation.

And even in the case where the parents are very wealthy, have a huge house and extra support such as a nanny, there is still the hugely important issue of over-population. It feels like we are at capacity already, without room to increase the population by the amount would result by every couple having even three children.

I'm trying not to be too goady or right-wing, and I have personal reasons for the way I feel (I am involuntarily childless) so please don't be too harsh, but it's something I struggle with ideologically as well as emotionally.

So... AIBU to think that people should be more responsible about how many children they produce and not act solely on their own desires regardless of the potential effects on others? Or is that an unrealistic, draconian expectation?

I wanted them. It's not rocket science. I don't like dogs so I don't have one. I don't like holidays in the sun so I try to avoid. I never go on spa days, I love reading and have far too many books. I love coffee and have a wanktastic coffee machine. One half of the world doesn't understand the pleasures of the other, is that such a hard concept to grasp?

I personally don't have a large family for reasons like the ones you have mentioned BUT I do respect other people feel different and having lots of children isn't the worst crime in the world. I reserve my judgy pants for bigger fish iyswim.

We have 4 DC. We could afford them and were were very lucky to have a large house to accommodate them. I'd happily have had more children however DH's career progessed quicker than we thought, I went to Uni and loved my job so we never got round to having more. It was our choice to have 4 children, its none of any else's business. Are you referring to the UK as being over populated?

Overpopulated? Because you feel like we're at a capacity? in what way? London feels pretty full but everywhere else feels fine to me. I'm not going to have a specified number of children because you think I should do so.

I grew up in a very large family. My siblings were the best gift my parents gave to me. We look after each other. We educate each other. We support each other. My children have lots of cousins that they love. All of my siblings have done extremely well academically and contribute more to the national pot than we take out. There haven't been any down sides for me. We weren't rich growing up but I don't really give a stuff about money anyway, as long as I have enough for food, shelter and clothes the rest is just accessories.

I am about to have my fourth child. My other children are looking forward to it. I have enough money to not have to work if I don't want to (I do work, because I do want to) but again, I think money doesn't add to happiness anyway, it never has to mine.

I agree with OP as well

Everywhere definitely isn't fine.

Thank you to those who have tried to elucidate people's various reasons without just flying off the handle. It strikes me that a lot of people have been very quick to feel the need to justify and I'm not sure I was asking for justification, but I suppose it could be read like that if you're so minded.

Elsa, that sounds horrendous and I hadn't even considered that situation as a possibility.

Willy I think I answered that question in my OP - and plenty of others have also alluded to population growth. But it's only my opinion and no-one's stopping you having another five.

Happy to judge but not be judged? I went through numerous miscarriages to have my children, and like itrytoohard I can afford to have and look after them adequately with my dh's sole support with none from family or friends. No one else's business to pry or judge my life or situation!! I'm sorry that you do not have children, and sympathise with your situation.

@Mybeardeddragonjustdied2016
They say they like it, do they? Are you able to give them as much one-to-one parental attention as they'd really like, though?
Do you ever get their names wrong?

Dh and I planned for 3 with a 'maybe' for number 4. Pregnancy number 3 was twins, which one should I have terminated?

It's not always as simple as stopping after a magic number. Perhaps people should be restricted to a number of pregnancies instead. Would it sound better to say a woman had only been pregnant 3 times, even if those 3 pregnancies had all been multiples - it happens.

And also, I think the pet analogy is quite a good one. I don't have a cat because they shit everywhere, have fleas and leave dead birds on my lawn. Nobody 'needs' a cat. And yet every fucker in my street has one, or more. I guess they don't feel the same about cats as I do...

Come to our Reformed Presbyterian church - families of +4 children are the norm. shrug each to their own, I think.

People who work and pay their way should not be restricted. Those one benefits/handouts should be capped at 2 pregnancies by way of capping all benefits at a maximum of 2 children/multiples

@Minisoksmakehardwork

"Dh and I planned for 3 with a 'maybe' for number 4. Pregnancy number 3 was twins, which one should I have terminated?"

Charming. The emotional blackmail card tends not to work in a serious discussion.

Did you just want to talk about your own infertility, Czerny? I'm sorry that has been difficult for you.

People could do so many things that would be more responsible and have fewer negative impacts on others. They could stop smoking, stop binge drinking, be more conscientious at work. Personally I'd like to see all urban areas designed to be like Spanish towns and cities, high density, high rise, with everyone cycling everywhere Dutch style (else walking). This would make us healthier (less expense to NHS), make the world cleaner (less pollution) & leave more land to share with wildlife. I'm not going to get what I want, either.

All these people saying, "it isn't anyone else's business", do you really think that? Do you really believe that your contribution to increasing the population has no effect on the environment or on anyone else? Or should other people have fewer children (or none) so that you can have more and it all balances out?

Sorry for being provocative, but the attitude that one's own actions don't affect other people in any way concerns me.

@ImYourMama
How do you propose to perform this capping thing?

4 children here. Very happy but wont be having any more. We can "afford" 4 aren't overcrowded and there is a big enough gap between them that they all get individual attention.

I didn't ever think I'd have a big family but I loved being a parent so much and each one has added so much to our family that we kept going. Hard to explain it more than that our family "team" now feels complete but it didn't before. I actually hate being pregnant and I'm not the biggest fan of the baby phase.... so go figure!

FWIW I'm one of 4 and DH is one of 3. We are the only ones who have children and are likely to ( both voluntarily and involuntarily sadly). So we've always felt we've used the others quota when it comes to overpopulation- I appreciate this misses the point!.

It took us over 2yrs (and fertility treatment) to conceive DS and I do think that having difficulty conceiving gives you a different view on fertility and families. How can it be the case that people can just decide they want another and then get one just like that? When that is so far removed from the OP's experience (and the experience of many others). Fertility treatment is rationed and it is so isolating and lonely to have difficulty conceiving. So I think it's perfectly reasonable for the OP to be contemplating this, although I generally try to avoid passing judgement IRL. But the people saying 'I had x children because I wanted them' have no idea.

...propose performing..

I agree OP and l find myself thinking how can you know that when posters say l can afford 3, 4 dc etc

But l think a great many people in the UK expect that someone should always be there to help them/pick up the slack.It's just my observation as someone who didn't grow up in the UK.

If they capped it at 2 people like my ex will have an even bigger hold over people like me.

It would be horrendous for people in abusive relationships.

My friend has 3 children, very little money and is constantly stressed by sorting out the kids she has, but is always saying she would like one more I don't get it.

On a less ideological level, this is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.

OP, I think your question is very interesting and perfectly valid.
MargeSimpson - there is no need to swear just because you don't like a question. You must know that many people wonder about the benefits of large families this day and age.

you can't compare having cats to having babies
for fucks sake they don't use nhs schools etc do they? give me a cat over a human any day of the week. They are a billion times better.