Large Families

[Czerny88]

I'm trying to understand the psychology behind people having large families (by which I mean anything over three children, I guess). NB I'm thinking about people in the 21st century, in the West, with access to contraception and low infant mortality, who don't belong to a culture where it is particularly encouraged to have a large number of children, such as Judaism. And obviously there are circumstances such as multiple births which don't apply.

My visceral feeling is that it is often wrong on many levels. In attempting to enunciate why, I would say people should not have more children than they can afford, than they have time to care for, than can fit comfortably in their living accommodation.

And even in the case where the parents are very wealthy, have a huge house and extra support such as a nanny, there is still the hugely important issue of over-population. It feels like we are at capacity already, without room to increase the population by the amount would result by every couple having even three children.

I'm trying not to be too goady or right-wing, and I have personal reasons for the way I feel (I am involuntarily childless) so please don't be too harsh, but it's something I struggle with ideologically as well as emotionally.

So... AIBU to think that people should be more responsible about how many children they produce and not act solely on their own desires regardless of the potential effects on others? Or is that an unrealistic, draconian expectation?

Ok, dear.

How rude. What the hell has it got to so with you? I have four dc we can comfortably afford them, I don't work so they have lots of individual attention. I would never judge people who chose not to have children or have just one because it's none of my business.

Adding that patronising 'dear' has cut me like a knife

I don't have children and I'm an only child myself but do any parents find that having several children means that you are constantly worrying about what feels like loads of people at once? All trying to get through education, one starting secondary when another is starting primary, 4 or 5 goes at chicken pox and flu, 4 or 5 sets of after-school activities, cooking things they will all eat? Or, do you find the oldest help you support the youngest? Just wondering really

No.

Why would any of the details be a problem?

And no.

newbrummie

aloraryger

leavemywings I would love to read that thread you mentioned. I am one of five and didn't hate it at all. I'll try to find it, it would be interesting reading.

mimisok - I have 5 from 3 pregnancies. snap

I agree with several posters - not everything in life can be perfectly planned.

I don't expect my eldest to help with the younger ones btw, though given that she is only 4 years older than the youngest 3 it would be difficult. Do they get all the one to one time they need? Well, I try my best. I am lucky enough to be able to afford to be a SAHM, so that means I have time to give.

How silly. Why is there an arbitrary cut off between 3 and 4? Makes no sense. Surely it should be no more than 2 if you desperately care about overpopulation.

The planet's resources are stretched - but why are you singling out the 4 child family who camp on holidays and cook fresh local food versus the 1 child family who fly aboard every summer and eat luxurious imported food? And this is not an artificial example - because fewer kids does often mean more money to spend on planet-destroying consumer fripperies.

Could not have out it better myself!

So people you really, really offended are out of order here?

....Anybody really, really offended by the OP needs professional help.

In fact, they are so out of order that they should consider the possibility that there is something wrong with them?

Really?
When someone posts a goady and really rather vile OP where she states that her 'visceral feeling is that it is often wrong on many levels'?

The visceral element of this can go unexamined, and apparently it can only be challenged if posters go to the trouble of posting an argument based on intellect, stats, and a measured tone.

We have 3 children would have adopted more but we have no more rooms each child has to have there own room when adopting

OP, like you I am infertile. I am also an only child, so no nieces or nephews. I am sure my reason for adopting a sibling group of 4 children was partly in response to that. Maybe this was also the reason we became foster carers once the children were into their teens. Now of course we have a much larger (and ever changing) family, and the sheer joy of grandchildren that has totally blown me away

We may have never had much money but there has always been enough love to go around. The endless washing though, I could do without!!

Apologies, i refereed to your infertility as 'lifestyle' because it felt awful writing 'because you can't have children' .
I guess what i wrote later in my post comes from seeing some of the mums (who have lots of children) in the school playground who look Always unhappy/ angry with their lot.. I often find myself wondering Why they had more, perhaps it was the last one that tipped them into constant unhappiness ?!
I have my moments/ hours where I could swap my five children for one, but on the whole they make me happy and they are confident thriving children, who often talk about having their own big families and feel very sorry for their cousin who doesn't have siblings..
Life is a funny thing, when i announced my fifth pregnancy a lot of people were shocked / horrified ! It isn't for everyone.
I had post natal depression baaaadly with my first son and thought long and hard about giving him a sibling because i literally felt like I was insane for a few years after having our first. However, when our second was born I was so insanely in love with her, I remember feeling like i was high as a kite for weeks and weeks after , the endorphin's running through me for her was crazy! After that I knew i wanted a big family. I would go on to have another five (!) but i know that there has to be a cut off point, where my children don't feel like they have to go without, where they have to share rooms, where we wouldn't be able to help them buy their own houses etc
On another side note, because i'm a stay at home mum my children see more of me than my sister's one child sees of her, because she works full time. And my OH works from home, so they have all their emotional/ financial needs met and i know we are very fortunate. We could have had two and had three holidays a year, but seeing my children grow into wonderful little people has been far more fun and memorable.. but as i said before, it's not for everyone.
Good luck in wherever your path takes you OP :)

Just so eveyones clear yea I am a sham and no we don't get anything before we adopted we had a rigorous financial assment

Apologies that i referred *

I agree in the main OP. I do understand the longing for lots of babies though.

I agree OP, I'm the eldest of 9 and hate being part of a large family. A number of my friends are from large families too and don't like it either. I feel like I missed out on a childhood because I had too much responsibility in helping look after my younger siblings just because my mother was like a broodmare having a baby a year.

Leaving the cost and size of your home out of it if you have a large family you usually have less time to give some one on one time to each child.

poster isitseptemberyet Sat 10-Sep-16 20:55:05

Totally agree with this my friend has one works full time and her boys also her on a Saturday and he goes to his dad's once a month for the whole weekend

She sees him one whole day a week Sunday I see my children more

We have 3 children would have adopted more but we have no more rooms each child has to have there own room when adopting

Me too with my 4 wonderful (adopted) children. In order to become foster carers also we moved to a part of the country where house prices were very low, and bought a dump of a property we are constantly renovating, but gives us the extra bedroom space to foster another 3. It was the only way to get over the bedroom issue you mention, although at times my twins have had to share.

Op I had one sibling who was 15 years older than me

She had to drop me off to school pick me up eventually she dropped out of collage because she was falling behind in her work.

We also don't speak now because we have a fucked up semi parent -sibling relationship

I have 3 my oldest is 16 he has not baby sat for me once they time he's ever really done anything to do with the other children is keeps them entertained if I am on the phone

Get older siblings to pick up the slack is not about large families it's about shit parenting

There are many who foster or adopt a large amount of children and I can assure you ss would not stand for simply leaving the older ones to tend for the younger sibs often that's why there in care in the frist place

There are many who foster or adopt a large amount of children and I can assure you ss would not stand for simply leaving the older ones to tend for the younger sibs often that's why there in care in the frist place

ABSOLUTELY!!! Remember with foster children never a week goes by without a visit (interogration and checking of every aspects of their lives and contents of wardrobes) by a SW. And yes, ironically 2 of the children I currently foster were also responsible for looking after their younger siblings before they came into care, often at the expense of going to school and any needs of their own. SW would be very hot making sure this would not happen again, even on a far less dramatic level.

When adopting our 4 children (over 20 years ago now) our first job was the relieve the eldest from the responsibility of having to care for the younger ones. The day he ate a whole biscuit and didn't break it into 4 to give his younger siblings a piece was the day we knew we had made it!

As someone who was part of a large family I can honestly say that it never once crossed my mind as a child to want to spend one to one time with my parents. Quite the opposite actually, I hated it if my parents took me somewhere on my own (I was the youngest) because I missed the others. Have no recollection of ever getting help with homework or anything, but then I have no recollection of ever asking. If I'd wanted help, I'd have got it.

I do wonder sometimes if my upbringing was hugely out of step with 'the norm' but it's not something that ever crossed my mind until I read threads on mumsnet where people talk about how cruel it is to have a large family. My siblings like being part of a big family too.

My eldest sibling did actually look after me in a way that sees much disapproval on MN, but it was because my mother developed a serious illness. It wasn't lazy parenting where my parents couldn't be bothered, it was family pulling together at a difficult time.

I have 4 DDs. All very much loved, adored and so wanted. We can afford all of them perfectly well, thank you.,

I agree with the op more or less. I have one, IVF and would have had a second because I don't think being an only child is ideal. But I would not have gone for more than 2. I know there are many large and happy families, the ones I wonder about are people with multiple kids who complain about them all the time, and how stressed they are and how expensive childcare is and how they can't wait for the summer holidays to end, etc, etc.
On over population, most Western countries have a declining population (including UK). The numbers are boosted by immigration, not birthrate. And actually this leads to serious problems ( not enough young people to maintain the economy). This is one reason why Germany is so welcoming to refugees, asylum seekers etc, as they have a problem with declining population. Overall, the world population is growing, but the rate of growth has massively dropped, and once the big 'bulge' of young people work through the system the world population will probably steady down to something similar to what it is now.
I also find it quite interesting that in the UK having children is seen very much as a personal lifestyle choice (only have them if you can afford them, 'why should my taxes pay for your kids attitude etc), whereas other European societies view them more as a national resource and actually try to encourage people to have them. Much larger child benefits, better maternity pay, money to stay at home with them, state funded nursery care etc. Because they are seen as the future of the nation and the economy.