Large Families

[Czerny88]

I'm trying to understand the psychology behind people having large families (by which I mean anything over three children, I guess). NB I'm thinking about people in the 21st century, in the West, with access to contraception and low infant mortality, who don't belong to a culture where it is particularly encouraged to have a large number of children, such as Judaism. And obviously there are circumstances such as multiple births which don't apply.

My visceral feeling is that it is often wrong on many levels. In attempting to enunciate why, I would say people should not have more children than they can afford, than they have time to care for, than can fit comfortably in their living accommodation.

And even in the case where the parents are very wealthy, have a huge house and extra support such as a nanny, there is still the hugely important issue of over-population. It feels like we are at capacity already, without room to increase the population by the amount would result by every couple having even three children.

I'm trying not to be too goady or right-wing, and I have personal reasons for the way I feel (I am involuntarily childless) so please don't be too harsh, but it's something I struggle with ideologically as well as emotionally.

So... AIBU to think that people should be more responsible about how many children they produce and not act solely on their own desires regardless of the potential effects on others? Or is that an unrealistic, draconian expectation?

The retirement age has risen because people are living longer

:o

The retirement age has risen because people are living longer

Indeed. And we need all of these children to PAY for us when we hit retirement age too. We would be pretty fucked if everyone stuck to one child, or none.

You can than our "snot nosed brats" for funding your retirement at the time, Chi.

Unless you're a millionaire of course. which you're not

Thank. You can thank them. And us for providing them too, for that matter.

Well, at the very least they're being raised to be much nicer, less bitter, more tolerant people than you. The world clearly needs more of those.

My brats (though I call them either "gremlins" or "Team Chaos"depending on my mood) are only one third snot nosed today, thank you very much. Although another one has some blueberry muffin like substance all around her face so I suppose that's no better. And the snot nosed one has a hideous diaper rash so is running around naked in the kitchen and may let some diarrhea go at any moment.

Sigh. It's bliss. I think I'll have seven when it's all said and done.

We have 4. Both me and dh are one of 5. Our parents were from
Bigger families and my gram was the youngest of 13.

See we trying to whittle it down op to suit you.

Having 4 kids is the way forward. It's ace.

There's more to the birth rate than how many children people have. The population will grow quicker if everyone had 2 children at 20 than if everyone had 4 children at 40. Agree with PPs about worldwide education of girls and women leading to dropping birthrates resulting in the outliers with their large families not having an impact.

I think some people are better parents than others and it would probably be better for society if a lot more of us didn't have any children but some of us had even more than we have now. Better to have six kids and looks after them well than failing to care for one child.

But I came from a family of 4 and loved having lots of siblings. DH and I have 3 but we really didn't want less than that, my Mum was an only child (not her parents choice, they lost a baby before DM was born) and hated it.

Yorkie I'm finding three very stressful. I've heard 4 is less so. You?

That was supposed to say "thoughts?" Not you.

I see we've moved on to having a swipe at people whose free and reasonable choice is based on their religious beliefs.

As I said upthread, the OP's posts are the gift that keeps on giving.

I can understand why people would want a house, a partner, one or two cars, one or two cats, one or two dogs, etc., but most people stop at a low number because resources (money, space, time, energy) are finite. Why should children be different?

Are you suggesting that children are equivalent to cars and cats now, OP?

Because I have children, a car and a cat, and I have noticed a really big difference between the children and the other two.

Having children is about love. It is not comparable to getting a car or house which are just material things which don't matter. It is about care of others, cuddles, relationships. Children are a huge blessing and having 5 is the best thing I have ever done.

I have noticed a difference however from the 1970s when it was regarded as absolutely dreadful in the UK to have more than about 2 or 3 children. It was very much looked down on in terms of the planet, over population and all the rest. Today it isn't so much. May be we will get back to that view. However the bottom line is humans willn ot be on the bplanet for long compared to the history of the planet in all its forms so I doubt it matters too much if we spoil the planet a bit sooner than we already do by having a few more people on it. To be sustainable longer term we need about 5 in 6 of us to die although who is to say we have more value than a worm or microbe anyway. Roll on the worms. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust

The fact remains that no person is required to justify the existence of their children, irrespective of number.

Some of you may believe that the converse were true and attempt to provide a rationale for such opinion, however ultimately your arguments are futile and we are at liberty to procreate as we see fit.

The " none of your business" brigade can fuck off too. Due to those selfish fuckers the retirement age for us child free has gone up and I'm waiting behind your snot nosed brat at the doctors surgery

You daft mare, if it wasn't for someones "snot nosed brat" there wouldn't be any doctors for you to see. You're one of those brats yourself.
It's our childrens taxes that will pay your pension and our kids that will wipe your arse in your nursing home, as long as your bitterness doesn't overwhelm your cold dead heart before then!

Cheerfulyank I really enjoyed ur post, thx for putting a smile on my face this morning 😁

FluffyWuffy - I take your point about the children of today being the taxpayers and workforce of the future, but I expect that the vast majority of nursing home patients have their arses wiped by immigrant staff - not because too few babies were born in the UK a generation ago, but because arse-wiping for the minimum wage is not a popular job.

Anyway I seriously doubt that many people have babies out of concern for the elderly or to do their patriotic duty to demography. Generally they have them because they want to.

The point that parental energy is finite but that doesn't mean we all start with the same amount is an excellent one.

I only have one son and find it really very very hard. I am also a huge worrier and despite having a high income, I feel permanently like the rug could be pulled out from under me.

I am in awe of people that can manage big families.

In awe of people who manage big families, but in despair of those who can neither manage or afford them financially, yet still go on having babies.

Anyway I seriously doubt that many people have babies out of concern for the elderly or to do their patriotic duty to demography. Generally they have them because they want to

I didn't say they did, I was responding to Bitchy McGee upthread who seemed to think there was no use for children at all!

I suppose anyone living beyond their means is difficult for them and I wouldn't want to be in that situation but people can make their own choices.