To think home schooling should be better monitored?

[Mollymoo78]

One of my FB friends from my toddler group days has announced on FB that she's home schooling her four year old. She was always very very attached to him and never had a moment away from him ie a night out. She breast fed him well into his fourth year and carried him in a sling when he got tired. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm genuinely wondering if her decision to home school has more to do with her being reluctant to let him go.

Her comments on FB are "well I have no precise plans as to what I'm going to do but they learn through play at this age anyway so it doesn't matter". I just felt quite uncomfortable reading that. It all sounds very vague. My dd has started school recently and loves it - the socialisation with her peers and older children, the physical activity, getting independence and rewards for her achievements. She's playing yes but she's also being taught to read and write. But what if this boy isn't given these things - who is going to be checking up on the education he's being given?

I don't mean to put a downer on homeschooling - I've no doubt it's the perfect option for those whose children don't gel with school but shouldn't you at least try school first? Am I wrong to question this in my mind?

I know people who home school. They have all done amazing jobs. But should it be a bit more monitored? Probably. But then the inspectors would probably be box ticking idiots who knew nothing about home schooling, so how would that work?
Ofsted is a joke, so why would these inspectors be any different.

It's entirely up to the parent. We are responsible for our children's education (we have the option to delegate it to schools) and home education is monitored to an extent. I had to home ed for 4 months when we moved long distance and I found it quite nice but I'm a trained teacher so I kept in line with the national curriculum. My son had a lot of disruption in school over the past few years with teachers off sick and we managed to cover everything he missed while in school over that 4 months.

Our children are registered at birth. We register them with a school so that the school/LA can be responsible to us, as the child's parents, for what they do with the children for whom the law says we, as parents, have the ultimate responsibility.
Children don't need 'teaching'. If you observe them, provide for their interests, do fun things that spark interest, answer their questions, or find someone that can, and trust the process of letting them develop at their own pace, they do remarkably well.Literacy and numeracy as prescribed in school are a nightmare for many, destroying self esteem and the ability to engage with the joy of literature and maths.
LA officials who attempt to monitor tend to think education can only be happening if it looks like school. Children do better, always, if not monitored and tested, because that affects the outcome negatively.
HE kids generally socialise with a broad age range, from younger than them to adults. Many kids in school have problems with social groups due to bullying or feeling they don't fit in and most do not have lots of friends. Peers are not always people within a year group.
The law does not require monitoring, the LA is entitled to enquire if they have reason to doubt that an education suitable to the child's age, aptitude, ability and any special needs is not happening.
I should definitely have done it with my daughter, whom I allowed to be let down big time by the system. I was determined, once I knew more about it, not to let it happen to my son, who was autonomously HE, developing his executive functioning skills in a way which does not seem to happen for many in school, even with the best of teachers. He's at university entering 3rd year with firsts for his first and second years.
It was the best thing I ever did, my son had a childhood, no exams stress and pressure and is happy and fulfilled. I realise I was so lucky not to need the childcare provided by school.

I was home educated.

If you ask my mum, she'll bang on about unschooling and how good it was for us. I disagree.

I felt I missed out on a lot of potential experiences and got fed up trecking round museums.

I think that whether people home educate or send to school is their business. As parents we all make hundres of decisions for our children, all of which could be made differently. I think that making sweeping generalisations either way is pretty pointless. You know theres more than one way to crack an egg. Whichever way you do it is up to you. I also think that there is too much negativity and suspicion around anything alternative and too few decent questions asked of what is seen as the normal way of doing things.

I don't think you're unreasonable in suggesting there should be more monitoring (although I wonder if you actually know what monitoring is already in place) but you are being unreasonable in your justification.
What's wrong with being 'attached' to a four year old?
The parent in question is very much correct, children do learn through play, and this continues long after the early years. We remember some of what we are told, we remember more of what we are shown, but we understand what when we have the opportunity to do things ourselves and apply skills in a practical and worthwhile way.
As an example, children in a classroom may be asked to design a bridge, the teacher will no doubt make up an exciting story as to why we need a bridge and the children will be able to move around the classroom, working together, experiencing new materials and solving problems and they'll probably have lots of fun whilst learning.
A homeschooled child could go out into the environment and build a bridge (or a dam, or a den etc but it will be a result of a real life problem that has occurred and it will mean something.
Also, your suggestion that school is important for social development is unreasonable. Being part of a group the same age, day in and day out is not natural or productive to social development. Children in school may have the odd trip but as a general rule they don't leave the grounds. Home schooled children meet new people regularly, they have interactions with people in all sorts of situations, and also see the adults around them modeling interpersonal skills.
if my husband agreed, I'd have my six year old son out of school faster than I can say SATs.

I tend to find most people who criticise home education simply do not understand how it works.

It is not replicating school at home.It is a totally different education philosophy. And it works.

Adults who were home educated as children - and there are many - my own daughters included - tend to have fewer academic qualifications but are more successful. As they have better social skills and have a more 'think outside the box' attitude to life.

My own daughters - one is a firefighter and the other a stay at home mum home educating her own children, prior to this she worked in the theatre, mainly teaching dance.

Unless I'm mistaken, studies show that formal education for younger children is actually detrimental to their lifelong learning. Schools do it anyway. Why on earth should any parent feel obliged to mirror an education that, in the younger years, is clearly little more than a convenient form of childcare (and who cares if it messes up kids learning potential)?

I feel very disinclined to be monitored by a system that is outstripped academically by so many other countries. Education in Britain is a bit crap on the whole, whichever way you look at it - hot-housing or arty student-led.

I also think that most people (who don't have contact with home education) have no idea that children can learn outside school because they've never seen it happen. But they really, really do - what happens at school is not magical, not academically or socially. It's very much what happens at home and in extra-curricular groups, only it takes five times as long because it's mostly crowd control.

I find this divide quite interesting. Surely school educated children are also home educated too by many parents who take them to museums, theatre etc on top of school. They also get to mix with other children of all ages out of school in various clubs etc.
I'm not sure I could tell if an adult has been home educated and which school educated.

Mrs Horsall "your suggestion that school is important for social development is unreasonable. Being part of a group the same age, day in and day out is not natural or productive to social development.

I've talked to many parents who say that school has been great for their child's social skills - what you're saying just isn't true. How can a home educated child get six hours a day with their peers? How can you say it's not natural to be with the same group - what about families and work places?!!

Children in school may have the odd trip but as a general rule they don't leave the grounds. Home schooled children meet new people regularly, they have interactions with people in all sorts of situations, and also see the adults around them modeling interpersonal skills.

This is actually highly insulting to parents of children who go to school. My dd meets new people and has new experiences all the time thank you very much!! You're missing my point - I'm talking about HE children who aren't getting a good education.

I can spot a public school boy a mile off - compliant !!!

I know some incredibly nerdy and insecure public schoolboys Pissssedoff. I'd bet good money that you couldn't pick them out of a lineup.

And yes like Geranium, my conventionally schooled children learn a huge amount from their parents, and from museums, theatres, TV documentaries, the Internet, library books, science fairs, parks, zoos, castles.... Just because I worry about the welfare of some children who aren't in regulated schools doesn't mean that I don't understand how much DC can learn at home.

There's really no need to create a "which is better" scenario between school and HE, because for obvious reasons, it depends on what is best in that particular situation.

For my dd1, school worked well. She loved it, thrived, and did extremely well.

For my ds1 and ds2, school has not worked. A lot of it is due to their SNs, as they just could not cope in school. HE works very well for them, so that's what we do. They were not learning in school, they are learning very well at home.

Arguing which is "best" is irrelevant.

I think as far as "monitoring HE" is concerned, the current laws are sufficient. Concerns about abuse need to be looked at, but NOT in the context of HE. Abuse occurs to some children in school and some children in HE. But just as a child being in school does not "cause" abuse, a child being in HE does not "cause" abuse either. These causes should be looked at. Mental health and addiction programmes should get increased funding. Parents and children should have more programmes available not only for support but for activities and to decrease isolation - places like Sure Start that need to be restarted and funded. And obviously, schools need to be improved, children with SEN need more support from both the NHS and schools/LAs. Put more money into women's shelters and to deal with domestic violence and abuse.

But all the government has to do is toss out the "should we monitor HE more closely?" and we're all fighting over that while they happily slash funding for more things that are desperately needed.

Just watched a programme about 4 year olds first days at school. They learned a lot in that first day. Really interesting.

The other interesting point is that the Head said it was fine for kids to start school at 7 if they had a home environment that was stimulating and challenging. But that not all children had that.
Certainly in the nordic countries, although they dont start formal school till 7, most go to kindergarten from 3. And children are expected to learn there through play.

Of course Home Ed kids should be monitored. Just as a tiny number of teachers are poor, so too will be the education that those parents give their kids.
Children are vulnerable. There are abusive parents - to a few of them, educating at home gives them added security.

FWIW I'm finding the LEA really helpful at the moment. DH has set up a new club basically like PE lessons for home ed children, and the 'associate HE teacher' is helping us with advice and is really encouraging about the idea. :)

My first instinct is to automatically go on the defensive with a thread like this- i started home edding my dd six months ago and had i known that i could have done it from the off i would have but i was completing my degree and felt pressured to get her into the education system. I want to point out at this juncture that i had already taught my dd phonics, numbers and she had been reading for a long time by this point- when she entered nursery i was told that they had 'nothing left to teach her'! I don't want to become embroiled in a mainstream school verses home education debate but as someone who trained to be a teacher and home educates their child i feel that i should at least throw my two pennies worth in.

Firstly i want to make it very clear that there are some wonderful teachers out there and some incredibly hard working, supportive schools. We however did not encounter this kind of school or this kind of teacher. The cliffnotes is that my daughter was quite ill for some considerable time on and off- and despite the doctors notes, hospital appointments and specialists that we had seen the school my dd went to still insisted she be in school during her 'darkest days', even if she didn't do anything and she just sat there, in pain and ignored! I would like to point out that my dd is an academic person, always at the top of the class and involving herself in projects. I chose to home educate her at that point (after years of similar goings on- not even including the merciless and unresolved bullying that went on too). She has worked incredibly hard during this past six months, we have worked around her problems and hospital appointments, she has even won awards during this time at home. Home education was definitely the best option for us and every around us has agreed that we put in every effort to make dd's education exemplary.

Secondly i do understand where you are coming from. Yes i do think that some people need to be monitored more closely. I personally follow the curriculum, we have a structured school day but i get to accompany this work with a multitude of days out to places beneficial to what we are studying. We get to add work to the curriculum, that is culturally relevant or fitting to the time of year- work that my dd chooses herself! I wanted to also say that i have just written a 2500 word report for my local education authority, to be honest i could have written more about what we've been up to but i had to just put in the 'basics' as they haven't got the time read a large report for each child. However there are obviously some parents that don't do this and yes every home educated child should be monitored but you are assuming that they are not already and that view is wrong.

Lastly, while i encountered problems with the school system and their support, other parents have not so i think that it is unfair to have school is better than home education/ home education is more beneficial than school argument because it just isn't necessary. Some times it works and some times it doesn't- there are many factors involved. I would also like to point out that it is entirely up to the parent how their child is educated- that's the law. It is up to them but the education must be sufficient. In cases where it is known that the education is subpar then more monitoring and support is needed- there really isn't much more to it than that.

I hope my experiences were useful to you.

I was home educated. If you ask my mum, she'll bang on about unschooling and how good it was for us. I disagree. I felt I missed out on a lot of potential experiences and got fed up trecking round museums

heron68 re the family I mentioned who were home schooled, one of their DDs openly said she felt the same way. She wanted to go to school to learn, to be around other children not be with parent & siblings 24/7

I think that aspect gets completely ignored in these discussions. Parents will of course give glowing reports, I don't expect any would admit actually, it didnt work well. Id prefer to hear from those who were homeschooled as children Im happier about the "wonderful stories" if I hear them from those who benefitted from homeschooling

Not when thoughts and comments like yours as a person who was homeschooled are seamlessly ignored - I find that very telling tbh

NickiFury Ive read the thread and talked about people I know - I simply don't have the same opinion as you, it isnt obligatory is it?, and for some reason you're touchy about over-attached mothers - so you've dropped that in there as if my thoughts on thread centred on that

Still, you must know why

Grown people describing their DCs as "my bestie? Please. Its an adult and a child sorry, my child is my best mate and I am his/her best mate = naff to me. Love cherish parent guide your child, thats (hopefully) as standard, announcing the best mates thing doesn't add to it, mates your own age and allowing DC the same would seem fair enough

Yabvu
As devil's advocational here...
"I'm a home ed mum. I can't stand those mothers who bottle feed because they can't be axxed with night feeds and being tied down to children.
Im disgusted that parents dump their children in school because they can't be bothered to look after them or are too stupid to teach.... "
I don't think that... but it is the opposing extremist view of the "other team."
As a schooled individual, I was bullied consistently and failed pretty much everything.
After school, I self taught and then attended college. I got As And A stars in everything I retook, I'm a qualified accountant, an experience farmer, I've trained and exercised horses, I can plaster, decorate, build and am pretty sharp when it comes to carpentry. Most things like plumbing I can do, last weekend I repaired a washing machine paddle and replaced the seals and fixed 2 leaks.
I have an older child with asd who didn't do well in school. A teen who was bullied through school and scraped through but accepted HE was not for her.
My 5 year old, I HE. She could read by 3! No school needed and on her own demands.
Yesterday we learned our coins and played shops, calculating money.
If she decides she wants to try school... she can.
My youngest is 2 months.

Assesment of these children will be impossible. I wanted to teach dd urdu. She's learning Greek. I know lots of children learning mandarin... how is an officer going to assess that. How will they assess one who's learned coins and one who learned sewing.
School is the place for teaching and assessing childen tick box fashion and some children excel like that.
Sure, some people have not enjoyed it and I admit that I'm nervous about unschooling but I can say my dd decided to write her numbers 1 to 10 and no one had shown her ever. And I saw photographs of a university engineering graduate who had been homeschooled and walked straight into employment in another country...
I'd suggest leaving home edders to do their thing while you do yours.
Stop stressing about how long your neighbours grass is.

The other interesting point is that the Head said it was fine for kids to start school at 7 if they had a home environment that was stimulating and challenging. But that not all children had that.
Certainly in the nordic countries, although they dont start formal school till 7, most go to kindergarten from 3. And children are expected to learn there through play.

High quality play-based early education is the best thing for under 7s. Some children here don't go at all before preschool at 6 but that's rare because usually both parents work so they have to go somewhere. The learning through play is pretty unstructured though - there is one hour a day of structured playing in DD's nursery (usually things like dancing, music, arts and crafts) plus story time and the rest of the time is free playing but qualified teachers are there to help the children realise what they are learning from playing.

And the people whose boys are studying the Torah for 14 hours a day in overcrowded rooms but not learning to read and write English Shepherdess? Just leave them to do their thing? Concentrate on your own children because you're alright Jack? Children are not their parents' personal possessions.

The fact that conventional schooling sometimes goes disastrously wrong doesn't mean we can't also look out for children who aren't in state schools. I'm absolutely fine with the fact that some legitimate Home Edders will do better than others, but I do think we need enough checks to a) know how many UK children are not in school and who they are b) make the lightest possible checks to see whether what they are doing all day falls within a very broad definition of Home Ed: as opposed to playing COD 20 hours a day, being a full time carer for parents or siblings, working in the family business, being taught God knows what in an illegal school, being locked in your bedroom to stop you running away prior to a forced marriage...

for some reason you're touchy about over-attached mothers - so you've dropped that in there as if my thoughts on thread centred on that

Still, you must know why

Yes because you keep banging on about the ONE person you know who home educates and refers to her child as her "friend". You did it in your most recent post too. Was that not your implication, that she has an odd, overly attached relationship with her child?

You certainly are entitled to your opinion but your regurgitating of the same old tired cliches - albeit from your cohort of THREE families you know who HE - made me think that you can't have read the thread to not even have acknowledged the many posters who describe being forced into HE for various reasons.

I can't hang around though, I have to take my youngest to SCHOOL - she manages well there and we are very fortunate for it having been on the other side with a child who was quite literally incapable of fitting into a school setting - those were fun years when everyone kept trying to force him I can tell you......not really.

You see trotting out the same tired old cliches about religious nut fathers and overbearing and yes "overly attached" mothers does no one any favours, least of all the kids who cannot attend school and the parents who have to change everything they thought their life would be to accommodate not being able to take advantage of years of free child care.