To think home schooling should be better monitored?

[Mollymoo78]

One of my FB friends from my toddler group days has announced on FB that she's home schooling her four year old. She was always very very attached to him and never had a moment away from him ie a night out. She breast fed him well into his fourth year and carried him in a sling when he got tired. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm genuinely wondering if her decision to home school has more to do with her being reluctant to let him go.

Her comments on FB are "well I have no precise plans as to what I'm going to do but they learn through play at this age anyway so it doesn't matter". I just felt quite uncomfortable reading that. It all sounds very vague. My dd has started school recently and loves it - the socialisation with her peers and older children, the physical activity, getting independence and rewards for her achievements. She's playing yes but she's also being taught to read and write. But what if this boy isn't given these things - who is going to be checking up on the education he's being given?

I don't mean to put a downer on homeschooling - I've no doubt it's the perfect option for those whose children don't gel with school but shouldn't you at least try school first? Am I wrong to question this in my mind?

Gingerivy
10 years of reading HE boards on various forum have closed my mind.

Ginger - so we're agreed that mandatory brief well-being checks for HE kids is a sensible addition to safeguarding policies?

Safeguarding policies only kick in if they are triggered (via complaint, red flag, being previously known to SS, etc.). If someone chooses to remove a teenager from school and they aren't known to SS and there are no other red flags, it's hard to imagine how the authorities would even know about them, other than through some form of HE monitoring. People keep talking about GPs for example but most teenagers don't need regular GP visits the way little kids do, so a teenager not visiting a GP regularly would not red flag anything for anyone.

Then I would calmly say that you need to remember that not all people who HE are looking to exploit children.
I have repeatedly stated that most HEers are wonderful, and that only a tiny minority of HEers are doing it as a cover for abuse. I have made posts that did not even mention abuse at all and were supportive of HE and HEers. (I am a huge supporter of HE.) I don't know why you're inventing things I have not said but please stop.

And Home Education UK, who I assume know what they are talking about say:

"Most home educators never employ tutors other than occasional music or art teachers."

So most children are not taught by maths or science tutors.

Listen children moan about everything - oh no my mean parents made me do a degree and now I want to do another one instead - fuck off you ungrateful brat springs immediately to mind no matter how it was educated

Home Education UK also say:

"Most HE'd young people come out of home education with fewer GCSE's, or their equivalents, than those in school, not because they are any less educated but due to the costs involved in taking the exams and this can be seen by some as a disadvantage of home education. "

YAB a bit U about a 4 year old not going to school - your friend is right that all they need is play at that age but YANBU that there should be some level of monitoring, for child protection issues as well as education issues. I would like it to be compulsory for all children to attend a doctor check up once a year (schooled and home educated alike) and for home educated children to be visited once a year to see that they are progressing (not according to the national curriculum but just to make sure they are not stagnating in their education and are obviously learning something)

so we're agreed that mandatory brief well-being checks for HE kids is a sensible addition to safeguarding policies?

Nope. We're not. Sorry. I said there are already safeguarding laws/policies in place, and there is no need for any additions.

This link has a list of HE groups in England. In some areas you should be able to go to one easily. In some parts of the country you would have to travel a fair way to get to one.

www.home-education.org.uk/forums.htm

If you looked on home ed sites, you'd see that loads of people will check into the home ed groups in an area prior to moving if at all possible. I recently moved, and checked into and joined the home ed groups well ahead of time to get to know them. Obviously in London, there's a fair bit going on. But I wouldn't consider moving into an area that had no local home ed groups.

I understand doing that if moving. But there must be some families HE where there are no groups.

Nope. We're not. Sorry. I said there are already safeguarding laws/policies in place, and there is no need for any additions.
Then why did you lie earlier, when you claimed we agreed about the need for checks, and were "baffled" by me being argumentative when you agreed with me?

There are no safeguarding policies regarding situations where HE kids are not already known to SS and where there are no other red flags. There is simply no way the authorities could know about them, other than via brief HE welfare checks.

Genuinely don't understand how any parent would be unwilling to allow their kids to undergo an annual 5-minute potentially life-saving check.

I imagine there are. But home ed children are not restricted to just home ed activities. And a lot of it is how resourceful you are in finding activities. There are tutors even in areas where there are no home ed groups, as generally tutors are used for home ed as well as aiding students already in school. And just because there is no formal home ed group, that doesn't mean there aren't other people home educating in the area that they can get together with.

My children don't just attend home ed groups. They attend a variety of things.

Incidentally I would say the authorities need to work harder to make more provision for 16+ or 18+ learning. Imo existing regulations seem to be predicated on the assumption that anyone who hasn't passed their exams by 18 must have voluntarily chosen to leave education. There seems to be not enough provision for people who were not able to be in education/sit exams during their teen years. This also affects kids with longterm illness, and kids who are carers.

I had to pay to take my exams out of my own pocket. Wasn't eligible to sit them for free as too old, but not eligible to apply to university without them as too young! I remember when I did ultimately take my GCSEs, the computer wouldn't let me register without inputting the (obv non-existent) grades I got when I "first" sat my GCSEs. It was set up by someone working on the assumption that anyone sitting their GCSEs past the age of 16 must obviously have already taken and failed them!

The Home Education UK website says most HE parents don't use tutors except for music and art.

GingerIvy - is there a nationwide policy of an annual or twice annual monitor of all children that are homeschooled? That's what I think there should be. Or as a pp suggested a HCP visit (one without the parent present if possible). Or is it hit and miss depending on the LA?

I mentioned before I work in further education, and I've worked with students whose parents had mental health problems paranoia distrust of authority.. School is seen as 'authority' ..And that's why they 'home educated.' Those children were not educated. There is less and less care for mentally ill people in this country and some of them will have children and some of their children will suffer.

It is hit and miss depending on LA.

Then why did you lie earlier, when you claimed we agreed about the need for checks, and were "baffled" by me being argumentative when you agreed with me? I didn't lie, so kindly don't accuse me of lying. I said that yes there is a need for safeguards/checks, which is why they are ALREADY IN PLACE IN THE LAW. There do not need to be additional laws put in place.

There are no safeguarding policies regarding situations where HE kids are not already known to SS and where there are no other red flags. There is simply no way the authorities could know about them, other than via brief HE welfare checks.

There are, but as has been the theme throughout on this thread, you (and others) are not willing to acknowledge this. Take the time to educate yourself about home ed and the law, perhaps. That might be helpful, although to be honest I'm not counting on it.

But GingerIvy; the guidance or law was quoted upthread; and it states that parents can refuse entry into the home (and presumably to engage at all). That's not really good enough.

Why isn't it good enough, they aren't under arrest .... It's assumed they've done nothing wrong until provern otherwise as is the case for every parent. Would you prefer it the other way around ?

There are no safeguarding policies for the situation I've described. Again, how are authorities supposed to even suspect an abuse situation exists (if there are no red flags and the family aren't known to SS), without regular HE monitoring?

Parents can legally refuse access.

There do not need to be additional laws put in place.
How many kids need to die before you acknowledge existing laws are simply not adequate?

PissssssedOffff - why are you so defensive? If you've done nothing wrong why would you object to a nice friendly visit a couple of times a year where your children share some work they've done and have a little chit chat with an interested adult?

How many kids need to die before you acknowledge existing laws are simply not adequate?

How many homeschooled kids have died due to lack of checks? And how does that work out proportionally to schooled kids who have died as a result of abuse in the home? I'd be very, very surprised if homeschooling is a problem here. Hyperbole on such a scale doesn't help your argument at all, in fact it just makes a nonsense of it.

Where would the money come from to do this monitoring and who would do it? Councils are run on a shoe string budget at the moment so if parents have chosen not to use local schools for whatever reason then is it really still the job of the local authority? Or should it be some other body?

I think it's very interesting how many people believe that H.ed parents should be monitored.
I wonder how many think they should be monitored during the holidays, you know, in case they are abusing their kids.
A lot of abuse could happen during the 6/7 weeks holiday, longer for private.
They may not see any agencies during this time, how on earth do we know they aren't being abused.
it's really shocking, we should call for all parents to be monitored when a teacher, doctor, Ewo, or sw aren't present.
What utter bullshit.

And no, they shouldn't be having an appointment with a GP without a parent present for heaven's sake. That smacks of an accusation of child abuse. Good grief!

Look. Realistically speaking, children that are being home educated due to difficulties in school due to disabilities/SEN are likely to be seeing GP, paed, OT, SALT, and other various professionals. They're hardly hidden. My children seen an assortment of these, plus have a yearly asthma check. Every dentist we've ever seen has said children should have their teeth checked every six months. Eye doctor - we've had varying advice, from 6 months to a year. There's no way anyone could say those children are hidden.

Plus as I said they are usually in contact with both EHE and SEN departments of the LA.

Children that do not have SEN or disabilities? Likely less GP/paed contact, but still dentist every 6 months, eye doctor every 6 months to a year, and GP undoubtedly occasionally.

And most HE children have a fairly active social life with groups, classes, activities, meetups. Plus there is general playing with friends that live in the area that may or may not HE as well as church for some.

Most HE children are not invisible. And those that are at risk of being abused when HE are quite honestly just as likely to be abused when in school. They're still home a good portion of their day/night when they attend school. As I have said repeatedly, OTHER things need to be looked at closer, not home ed.