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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To already roll eyes at the whingy school threads..

310 replies

Ditsyprint40 · 06/09/2016 22:28

Working in a school, and being totally inundated with both serious and trivial things..

OP posts:
jellyfrizz · 07/09/2016 15:16

To whom is a teacher responsible and accountable?

Just about every man and his dog it would seem.

witsender · 07/09/2016 15:16

Ha! You clearly have been in some very unsympathetic schools Gilly. The ones I have worked in, governed and sent children to would never expect 10 minute attendance. I live at the end of the road from our local school, and unless I had my shoes on, permanently by the door just in case, even I couldn't get there in 10...and we are probably the closest.

Given this is a rural area with widely spread out towns, very, very few people work within 10 minutes drive, unless they are farm hands or similar. Even then, the process of finding the boss, explaining the scenario, getting in the car etc is 10 minutes before you even travel.

We don't send our kids to school, but when we did we were both equidistant from school. However I work in a food bank and would have to sort cover were I to leave, and dh is a lecturer. So neither can just up and leave.

The school has compassion for children though,and their parents. If they know someone is coming (I have family locally, many don't and also had best friend on the list) then they are not clock watching! Child sits on sofa in the office, being fetched water and generally petted by the office staff and any other passing staff member. As a parent I sat through an assembly with another child on my lap sobbing because her mother wasn't there. A school is a community.

Engage brain before clutching pearls.

Sighsofthetimes · 07/09/2016 15:17

Totally agree with dailyarsewipe

Most schools have no idea about the real world, they seem to be stuck in the 1970s. Parents work. Work isn't usually just around the corner for the teachers' convenience.

Most teachers have no idea, having come straight from college. Straight from one classroom to another.

No wonder they are known in Parliament as a Whinge of Teachers. How very apt.

Ego147 · 07/09/2016 15:17

To whom is a teacher responsible and accountable

Good question.
Personally, it's the pupils and their parents. I would hope most teachers feel that way. Teaching is such an important job and the right start makes all the difference in life.

But teachers are accountable to the Head, OFSTED and the Government. Often the needs of the pupils and parents clash with the accountability towards these people.

That is so so hard.

witsender · 07/09/2016 15:18

Also worth noting that only nominated adults can collect children. Sending the neighbour won't cut it unless you have pre-agreed it.

Ego147 · 07/09/2016 15:19

Judging people to the extent that you think they're bad parents because they can't collect a vomiting child inside of 10 minutes indicates something is badly wrong; gossiping like that

I don't think many teachers think that. I'm not even sure if it's teachers who are saying that on here TBH.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 07/09/2016 15:19

Dammit

I agreed with

HainaultViaNe when she said about parents in the 70's....not private school Grin

jellyfrizz · 07/09/2016 15:20

Judging people to the extent that you think they're bad parents because they can't collect a vomiting child inside of 10 minutes indicates something is badly wrong; gossiping like that shouldn't be normalised. Let alone on the UK's biggest parenting forum.

Erm, it wasn't a teacher who mentioned the 10 minute thing. Many teachers are parents too and fully understand the pressures on working parents.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 07/09/2016 15:20

gilly - most parents do accept that stuck at school is not the place for a child, what you can't seem to accept is that in this day and age most people don't have a choice. 99.99% of parents will get there as fast as they possibly can and will still feel shit that they couldn't get there sooner! Attitudes like yours just pile on the shit.

Ego147 · 07/09/2016 15:21

Attitudes like yours just pile on the shit

I don't think gilly is a teacher.

Ego147 · 07/09/2016 15:22

Many teachers are parents too and fully understand the pressures on working parents

Except those who don't and then send home the note with it's dress up day tomorrow and the theme is heroes Grin

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 07/09/2016 15:28

gilly

Yes love, you are the only one who cares about the poor sick children Sad

Its just the 10 minute thing people have a problem with, 30/1hour might be ok

My anedote here was dd collapsed in class, school rang my mobile...no answer, tried home....no answer (was out grocery shopping and the message didnt ping through) rang dh who couldnt get out of meeting 1 hour away, they managed to get through to gp who went to the school and waited for the ambulance with her

I walked through the front door, picked up the message and ran the 5 mins up to school

Sometimes you just cant get there in 10 mins

Alfieisnoisy · 07/09/2016 15:30

My son attends a special school 30 mins drive away...no way could I get there "in 10 mins". I won't send my DS to school though if I think he is sick.

On the rare occasions I have had to collect DS early for sickness reasons I get there asap.

PinkissimoAndPearls · 07/09/2016 15:32

Gilly please can you answer this?

We have no special schools in our borough suitable for my DC (well we did but they got closed down Hmm). My DCs had no choice but to attend a school in the next borough - travel time was 1 -1.5 hours just to get there. And that was in LAA transport, I didn't drive.

How on earth would school or deluded people like you expect me to collect within 10 mins? Helicopter? Or, as people always fucking say on these threads "oh I don't mean DC with special needs"...

YesItsMeIDontCare · 07/09/2016 15:33

Ego - I hope not, I'm picturing someone like this!

To already roll eyes at the whingy school threads..
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 07/09/2016 15:35

I was a SAHM, and lived within 10 minutes drive of the dses' schools, but even I would have struggled to be at school within 10 minutes without fail.

  • the parking near the school was dire, even outwith school hours - so I might have had to park a distance away - 10 minute fail.
  • I had errands to run, more than 10 minutes from school (doctor/dentist appointments, shopping, post office, bank etc) - if I was called whilst I was doing these errands I wouldn't have been at school in time - 10 minute fail.
  • I wanted to have a bit of a life - visit friends, go to the gym - should I have done nothing but sit at home by the phone, waiting in case the school rang?

I am sure that any rational and reasonable school will realise that, in the real world, parents cannot guarantee to be at the school within 10 minutes, at the drop of a hat - and they will know which parents are doing their best to get there as quickly as possible, and which parents (a very small number) who won't care enough to come within a reasonable time.

madein1995 · 07/09/2016 15:43

I don't see why teachers are labelled as being bad for having a moan about their 'customers' (WTF?) when there are threads about NHS workers complaining, police officers complaining, office workers complaining ... teachers aren't superhuman you know, they are allowed to rant the same as everyone else. And while I worked in early years not as a teacher, I can definitely understand that some parents make your job harder by thinking it's all about their dc.

If a child has to be left for 2 hours when ill, they have to. But really parents should be organised enough to have a plan in place - friend/sibling/NDN. If none of those are feasible, and you can afford it, arrange with your babysitter to put them on the emergency list and pay double time for the trouble. If you can't do that then that's a reason, but I doubt that many people would have explored all avenues. Sometimes parents need to put themselves last on the emergency list. Case in point; my mum used to want to my emergency contact - obviously she's my mum. She worked somewhere where phones weren't allowed. So did my dad. So my aunt and NDN were my emergency contacts, not my parents. Agree thats aazing how well some 'ill' children recover, but disagree that unless it's an ambulance it's not an emergency. So your 4 year old has D+V, is crying for his mum or dad, is upset because others have seen him soil, is upset because the comfort he wants isn't there, and you wouldnt class that as an emergency requiring going to the school asap? Of course if there's circs which mean you can't (in middle of theatre/in the middle of controlling a riot/only available ambulance driver for next 20 mins/bad traffic) then fair enough, but there's a difference between that and choosing not to because it's not an emergency. If you truly can't get there within an hour fine (though the school will prob ring every half hour to make sure you are on the way) but not to rush because it doesnt need an ambulance?

Disagree with the 10 minute thing. Between getting the phone call, locking up the dog/getting dog in car/dressing younger siblings and getting them in the car, putting on something requiring normal wear (for people like me who wear pjs if at home for eg), grabbing your shoes, keys, a sick bowl and dashing to the car, that's your 10 minutes gone, even for a SAHM with 1 toddler at home who lives less than a mile away. Let's be honest not many parents have those kind of optimal circumstances either.

Respect on both sides help, although from this thread parents need to stop viewing it as kind of 'youre paid by the gov to teach my child so you will do all I say.' Just no. They're there to educate and guide your child, yeah. Basic skills - laces, TT - should be taught at home. Teachers are busy and do not need or want a discussion about little Jimmy not having a choice of who hes sat next to when hes been moved 3 times already. If parents have an attitude and create a mountain over a molehill, they won't get helpful advice. If teachers come across as unapproachable, or uninterested, they are not going to have the parental partnership they need. Children need home and school to be in partnership with each other, and by 'othering' each other, all schools and parents are doing is disadvantaging that child's learning.

MoreCoffeeNow · 07/09/2016 15:50

"Would the people who are ok with this thread and moaning about parents be ok if I started a thread moaning about my patients? I work in health care and wouldn't start a thread moaning about all the things the patients and their family do to piss me off."

Go ahead, there have been plenty in the past.

Ego147 · 07/09/2016 15:53

A school is a community

This. I can't imagine any school I have worked at where a sick child is left by themselves without someone checking on them. I've seen children on the chair by the office with a sick bucket waiting for their parents. There's not a lot people can do except reassure them and keep an eye on them. Which is what schools are good at.

I certainly don't think anyone judges a parent - unless that parent knew full well their DC was sick and sent them in anyway.

Bestthingever · 07/09/2016 15:59

I'm a TA and it does shock me how quickly my colleagues expect parents to get there. Of course we only call when a child truly needs to go home (my dc's school loves to call me) but sometimes it's just not humanly possible to get there in less than an hour, prompting much tutting from my colleagues.

MargaretCavendish · 07/09/2016 16:03

I think people are being very melodramatic about the 'heartbreaking' sight of children having to wait more than 10 minutes to be collected. My mum once entirely forgot to collect me when I was ill; she went to finish something at work before leaving, got absorbed in it and the school had to call her again some time later to ask where she'd got to... It probably wasn't her finest parenting moment, but I think it's a funny story: I definitely wasn't scarred for life!

fatowl · 07/09/2016 16:06

I'm a teacher and it was my first day back teaching today. I teach mainly KS3 and I have 113 new student names to learn.

But that aside, back at the start of this thread before it got out of hand we were talking about lost property.
Last year, DD3 lost her PE shirt, so I told her to get herself to lost property and look for it properly, and she came home with, not hers but her older sisters, named, lost circa 2007.
Not never give up on something lost at school- things surface eventually.

gillybeanz · 07/09/2016 16:06

The school did the 10 mins or there abouts because parents were taking the piss.
Parents were warned before joining the school and it was up to them whether they did or not.
Some schools aren't able to care for sick children and it was then they called on the community of the school to help.
Nobody lives in isolation not knowing their friends parents. It's easy to set up a cooperative of parents willing to cover such events.
I didn't think this would be so unappealing to parents these days, obviously I was wrong.
I looked after 2 of dc friends when poorly, one mum worked in a shop close to school but obviously couldn't just leave, so I'd take her dd to her home and call another parent who'd bring my dd to friends house after school.
Schools are communities and in the case of a parent not being close, they made other arrangements. They didn't expect others who had a different job to looking after sick dc to do their parenting.
To me it's the lack of consideration for the sick child, staff, teachers, other children and of course any visitors who walked through the doors to be greeted by poor child shouting for Hughie and Ralph.

fatowl · 07/09/2016 16:07

Sorry about the typos

stripesstpots · 07/09/2016 16:14

This thread is awful and I say that as some one who used to teach in primary.

Yes yes to some of the points about velcro shoes, name labels on clothing, practice getting ready for PE and such.

In regards to the must be collected within an hour or you are a vile parent some people do not have support networks (we had kids who's Mum had fled abuse and knew no one, people who were brand new to the area, refuges and one were both parents had died and Gran was collecting children from two different schools). Do you realise how hard it is for refuges and domestic violence victims who are terrified to build relationships with people in their local community from scratch, especially if there is a language issue or the kids are above school age and not at toddler group age?

Sometimes there are not the jobs locally. I have had families with no washing machine, families with no food, families sharing one room in tiny bedsits, families in emergency accommodation. Instead of slagging those children off you send it down the chain and try to get someone to help the family. That is what all the good teachers I have worked with do.

Gone are the days when people lived in the same street as their families.
It isn't a case of some parents thinking it is fine to not have a local person on hand, they simply might have no one in the local area to do it.

In my day if kids were ill there were no mobiles, you lay down on a bean bag or little bed until someone came home. Funnily enough schools managed like that for decades! In any school I have worked in or dc have been in if there was no sick room then children waited in heads office, library, support room or such, I have never been anywhere where kids where made to go outside.

Some people send their kids in ill (I don't) because it has been made so you have to jump through hoops and get snotty letters and asked for sick notes in some schools if your kids are genuinely ill.

There are some amazing teachers and some utterly crap ones like ANY job. It is a hard job but so are other jobs out there and worse.
I do think there is an attitude from SOME , note I said SOME teachers, that teaching is the worst job in the world and they are the only ones under stress and they are treated worse than anyone else and they should be respected immediately without showing anyone else any respect.

My Mum has arthritis from lifting heavy patients all her working life until health and safety rules, she has been spat at, punched in the face, kicked, attacked by druggies, bit, urinated on, had poo smeared on her, sexually harassed, if she makes a mistake someone DIES, she has to sit with dying patients, patients who have no one, tell people their love ones have died, tell parents their kids aren't going to make it. She doesn't get paid a massive amount for that. Teaching isn't the worst job out there.

I have awful experiences of it from a parents side too, having a child with special needs and no one helping you, my child being humiliated in front of the class by a teacher because yet again no one has passed the round robin to the teachers telling them she has special needs despite being told repeatedly. Being told off by staff members for being too slow to get changed for PE due to special needs. Being bullied and threatened and nothing being done.

I have also had amazing teachers who have built her confidence and brought her on leaps and bounds and I am thankful every day to those teachers.

My dc has just moved to a new school after a very serious incident in school which the school only dealt with properly after the police were involved and stopped victim blaming.

I have moaned about it on here in the past and will do so in the future.

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