To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

[Puzzledconfusedandbewildered]

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

I don't have massive objections to a loosely defined, sensible school uniform: for instance dark trousers, white shirt, dark sweater.

It's the top button/tie/correct socks nonsense that bothers me. And the thought processes that lead people to think they should be allowed to control whether or not a kid takes a blazer off when he's hot.

Whilst I agree Schools should have a zero tolerance policy regarding school rules - inc uniform, it is easy to imagine scenarios such as children who walk to school, parents go off to work, child gets turned back at gate - child then unsupervised for 6 hours plus. Younger ones being bullied, led into trouble by older kids, kids hanging around town centre, etc. Parents need to be notified if their child is sent home. I think the school is storing up trouble for the whole community, kids will wear uniforms incorrectly on purpose and then be hanging round town being a nuisance.

Some parents want a quiet life and when their offspring put pressure on them for trainers/grade one shaved hair/etc they cave...it's easier to given in, let the school contact them, have a barney with school then come out the hero with their kid twofold.

Hate, hate, hate school uniform. Nasty polyester which is too hot in the summer and not warm enough in the winter,, horrible uncomfortable styles of clothes and shoes, a way of trying to suppress individuality, and no evidence that it improves learning in any way. As PPs have said, most other European countries seem to do very well without it, including the one which we lived in for two years. You can learn to obey rules and treat school and learning seriously without being forced to wear stupid, impractical clothes, and the argument that it does away with kids differentiating each other by labels does not hold water as they can still spot the child with the cheaper versions of bag, shoes, coat, pens etc. Should be consigned to the history books ASAP...

My dd's school is strict. It's a pale blue shirt, grey logo jumper with grey trousers or skirt, grey or black socks and black shoes. The PE kit is logo rugby top (£22!!), black shorts or tracksuit bottoms and trainers. Hair HAS to be tied up (girls and boys), no jewelry except one pair of plain silver or gold stud earrings and shirts are to be tucked in.

The crazy thing is the stationery equipment. Blue pen only. But not biro or gel pen, must be a proper writing pen. One highlighter (not yellow). One ruler. One eraser. One purple felt tip (still don't know what this is for). One pencil. One glue stick (not coloured).

However, this is a really good school, great results but most importantly a great caring school with a brilliant SENCO, lovely teachers and they are really good at understanding every child has different needs.

It's not difficult to buy the right coloured socks is it?

Whilst I agree Schools should have a zero tolerance policy regarding school rules - inc uniform, it is easy to imagine scenarios such as children who walk to school, parents go off to work, child gets turned back at gate - child then unsupervised for 6 hours plus. Younger ones being bullied, led into trouble by older kids, kids hanging around town centre, etc. Parents need to be notified if their child is sent home.

I don't know the ins-and -outs but I'd assume the school phones home to inform oarents first. And it will be to go home and get correct uniform then come back.
I'd imagine they'd code them as unauthorised in register if they don't return..
Definite safeguarding issue to not inform parents and I'd be very surprised if they let this slip.

Loosely defined uniform is perhaps understandable from a group identity point of view. However I think that by and large the potential benefits are outweighed by the obsession with conformity. I would suggest a more productive approach would be teaching acceptance of difference.

I don't have any issue with a school uniform policy that actually takes some notice of what the parents can actually buy. So my DD's primary, with it's usual red cardi/jumper, black trousers or skirt and white or black socks with black shoes was no trouble.

THe other local primary, which adopted a uniform of purple jumpers with yellow shirts (!) when neither were available locally is another matter. They shouldn't produce lots of extra expense to the parents.

My niece's primary is even worse. Fixed uniform from nursery, with a special printed T shirt for the nursery children. And they dictate everything right down to hair accessories. Which can be only in the colour of the school uniform. So green, black or white. No acceptions.

My own school has a tie in its winter uniform and when we changed uniform a while ago I spoke up as one of the teachers about not thinking it was something we should keep. Far more people thought that they should keep it and it stayed.

One local high school has had the scruffiest uniform in the area for a while. Black trousers, grey polo with the logo on and the navy jumper with the logo on. They also embroider the child's house name on to the jumper. THis is not taken into account when siblings attend the school so it's practically impossible to pass down the jumpers.

They have not done very well recently in their inspection and one of their changes is to look at the uniform. They are now canvassing parents for a choice of 3 uniforms. Each one includes trousers or pleated skirts (the only type of skirt allowed) inc plaid as one of the options. Worn with a shirt and tie, a knitted jumper and a blazer. What a change!

I don't know the ins-and -outs but I'd assume the school phones home to inform oarents first.

They don't, or at least they don't at the school my daughters attend in Leeds and they don't at the school in Margate where my friends children go - I can't answer for all schools only the 2 I have knowledge of, and one of those is only friends say so. They just turn them away at the gate, there may well be follow up if the child does not return to school correctly dressed,.

Lots of people complaining about the kids missing out on their education over 'trivial' things like following school rules. Hmm. It is very, very simple: send your child in correct uniform, support the school in setting the tone THEY feel they need to help your child to do well, and they won't miss out. It's all very well getting up in arms about children being turned back at the gate or sent home for the wrong socks, short skirts, trainers etc, but at the end of the day it is the school staff who are accountable for results. Allow them to make the decisions about what they need to make this happen, or train as a teacher and do the job yourself!

A teacher will never be as entertaining as an xbox so you turn up to class not in your pj's but uniform.

Huh? I sincerely hope you're not a teacher.

As for non-uniform costing more, my chikdren wear the same clothes to school as they wear during weekends and holidays. At DS's age (13), two sets of clothes would be wasteful as he is growing so fast that he can't wear clothes out before they are too short.

Abolish school uniform all together and all this bullshit will end. Trainers, not trainers -- why is that even an issue?
Seriously. Do heads/teachers have nothing better to do than faff about sock colour?

"Tone" of a school is a rediculous argument. As far as saying that you should "train as a teacher" if you want to comment why don't tou suggest people train as politicians before expressing opinions on our countries leader shop! Perhaps we should remember that in academies teachers aren't required to be qualified, not looking like such a good statement now is it Trifel!
My point is not that children shouldn't follow school rules, it's that there is far too much attention paid to setting and maintaining uniform when larger challenges exist. I think of this as a burden on teachers as well as parents. I think that the main reason schools want to set complex uniform standards is that they wish to mimic the aesthetic of the public school. It's 2016, it is time to look at good educational models and not get mired in this sort of nonsense. Schools and parents should work together but that doesn't mean that the school should be an unquestionable entity, at the end of the day they are there to provide a service to the community. Requiring badged clothing book bags and other accessories is not supporting that service provision it's at best an over inflated ego at worse an excuse to extort money from parents.

Lots of people complaining about the kids missing out on their education over 'trivial' things like following school rules. Hmm. It is very, very simple: send your child in correct uniform, support the school in setting the tone THEY feel they need to help your child to do well, and they won't miss out

Even simpler: have no uniform at all, and no-one misses out because the teachers can get on with teaching rather than wasting hours faffing around checking on the colour of children's socks.

It's not a matter of what the school "feels" it needs. It's a matter of evidence. There is no evidence that uniform makes children do well.

Engineer: My point is very simple. The people who do the job largely agree that tone is important, and that uniform rules do matter, or they wouldn't insist on them. If you feel qualified to disagree, that's up to you, but it is deeply counter-productive to encourage your child to go against the rules in the school you choose to send them to. Trust the people who have to deal with the fall-out from that, rather than spending your time arguing about petty detail.

Judy: It is a matter of what they feel, provided no-one is breaking any laws. Teachers and school leaders are not obliged to 'evidence' every decision to your satisfaction; they have enough to do. If you don't like it, take your child elsewhere.

It is part of a package that enables the classroom to be calm and the learning to progress.

Nonsense. There are schools with uniform rules where classrooms are chaotic. There are, however, schools all over Europe and the Americas where there is no uniform and all the evidence shows that learning progresses absolutely fine.

Those who think getting children to understand that they are being prepped for the world of work that often have uniform rules need to re think

Again, the argument falls down when you look at the fact that people in countries with no uniform rules in schools still manage fine if they then join occupations which require uniforms or dress codes.

"Take your child elsewhere" is a total non-argument. The reality is that in most areas you can't just decide to move your child to another school because other schools are full.

Trifle, precisely: teachers and school leaders have enough to do. They shouldn't have to waste time messing around with uniform. And yes, they should be able to justify rules, because teaching children just to respect rules because they exist rather than because there is a good reason for them is the way to produce mindless automatons.

Uniform is a total waste of time.

My DC go/went to a school with no uniform, though they were expected to adhere to a certain standard of dress (no transparent clothes, no bare shoulders, no ripped clothing, no dirty clothes/shoes, no provocative t-shirts...) and were told in no uncertain terms not to return wearing unsuitable items. Academic, pastoral and behavioral standards are exemplary. What would uniform add? Or take away?

It's not a non-argument. Uniform policy is at the discretion of the Head and governors. If they decide it's necessary to uphold standards of behaviour, that is their call, even if you disagree with it. Rather than wasting hours of staff time arguing about it, find another school where they don't think it matters. If you can't, get behind the school that has a place for your child and wants to help them to succeed. Stop expecting them to justify everything to every parent on an individual level. Think about it this way: if 50% of parents agree with a uniform policy and 50% oppose it, a Head or senior leader might have to deal individually with every single parent in whichever group doesn't get their own way. That is one hell of a waste of time that could be spent on educating your child. Grow up.

And on that note, I am going to school 😂

I had a letter home saying my DD s trousers were unsuitable as they didn't have a pleat down the front. An actual letter in the post. They are from Sainsbos back to school range

There was one girl who got my sympathy. Dds old school was very tight on wearing the correct uniform but did make an exception for dd and the length of her school skirt. (School skirt was a particular design so not available from anywhere but the school outfitters).

Dd is an adult size 2 and was the tallest in the school. Dds skirt which fell off her hovered somewhere around her mid thigh. Like everywhere in the UK it is assumed that the smaller the size the shorter the person.

Trifle the school head and governors do have to justify to me their policies and proceedures! They are not and should not be considered all powerful enterties. You appear to be the prime example of the problem, someone with a huge ego and no perspective. I have not encouraged rule breaking I have challenged the concept that a school is not answerable to its customers.

Trifle, or course "find another school" is only an argument if that is a realistic possibility. How can it be anything else?

I'm not asking that schools justify uniform rules to individual parents. I'm asking that they justify them full stop, and that they do that by reference to evidence. Every other rule that a school has can generally be seen to have a point: you behave in class because no-one learns otherwise, you don't make a noise because it distracts everyone if you do, you turn up on time and with the right books because all of that is a necessary prerequisite to learning. But a massive range of evidence shows that children in schools without uniforms learn and do very well.

Think about it this way: if 50% of parents agree with a uniform policy and 50% oppose it, a Head or senior leader might have to deal individually with every single parent in whichever group doesn't get their own way. That is one hell of a waste of time that could be spent on educating your child. Grow up.

Think about it this way: if they had no uniform policy they wouldn't have to deal with the issue at all. How many schools in Europe have to deal with 50% of parents clamouring for uniform rules? It just doesn't happen. However, in this country teachers spend ridiculous amounts of time on shouting at children about uniforms instead of teaching.

As for "Grow up": now, that really is childish.