To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

[Puzzledconfusedandbewildered]

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

[LineyReborn]

But that's just your personal opinion, Puzzled, in your social and historical context.

And personally, I love a bit of fabric-based rebelliousness because that seems more honest and refreshing to me.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

what you are saying is that rules are rules and everyone should follow the uniform policy like sheep but if you find a uniform policy you don't agree with then it is okay to not comply

Where on earth did I say that?? Quite frankly it's so far from the truth that it almost looks like a deliberate attempt to misrepresent my posts, though to further clarify, if you mean should folk ignore requirements while they're in the process of challenging something, then my answer would be no

There are rational ways to challenge "rules", and it's a excellent thing that everyone has access to them. Sometimes in the interests of the greater good a challenger will get their way and sometimes not, which seems reasonable in a democracy; the rest seems to me to be pointless playing to the gallery

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I hated school uniform. Dd is 16 and now in a college where you where what you like to come and go and whatever dance wear you have to hand. None of the business wear nonsense and ds is HS so my days of stressing over finding the particular jumper socks etc. Is over

[LineyReborn]

It's also true that children are entitled to opinions - as long as we remember that they usually lack the understanding lent by long experience as well as the maturity to consider complex issues in the round

One of the grown-up pro-uniformers on this thread thinks there's no farming in the Green Belt.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

So puzzled what you are saying is that rules are rules and everyone should follow the uniform policy like sheep but if you find a uniform policy you don't agree with then it is okay to not comply. Which sounds like hypocrisy to me.

*just saying shan't"

Isn't that exactly what happened. The legal challenge only came about after the rules were broken.

[Arseicle]

It's also true that children are entitled to opinions - as long as we remember that they usually lack the understanding lent by long experience as well as the maturity to consider complex issues in the round

True but many parents agree with them, and we have both the experience and the maturity

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Do you think the people talking about and it and writing articles and shouting it down didn't play into changing public opinion and helping to change the reality?

I agree up to a point, but if a challenge is really worthwhile a point comes where folk need to do more about it than whinge, hit Twitter and run to the local rag. Ranting may be satisfying in its way, and I'm sure student defiance is a lot of fun, but it's not always the most effective way of getting things done

It's also true that children are entitled to opinions - as long as we remember that they usually lack the understanding lent by long experience as well as the maturity to consider complex issues in the round. After all, the minimum voting age is there for a reason ...

[HelenaDove]

"I actually think that this is quite a swift way of getting rid of the problem parents! I bet the headmaster is secretly relieved that some have gone elsewhere!"



Yes I will bet he is. Its a swift way of getting rid of the working class parents would be nearer the mark.


Which means any funding or rating or whatever they receive from FSM should be adjusted accordingly.

[Arseicle]

Some rules are ludicrous on the face of it. Best the rule is challenged through legitimate channels - not by student defiance

Student defiance IS a legitiamate channel, unless you think children aren't autonomous beings and don't deserve opinions on the thjngs that directlyt affetc them>

[Arseicle]

I realize that won't necessarily be the end of things, but whatever the system's faults at least that group had, and took, the opportunity to influence change by using due process instead of just saying "shan't" and muttering about how unfair everything is

It';s both though. Do you think the people talking about and it and writing articles and shouting it down didn;t play into changing public opinion and helping to change the reality? They did.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Actually that's a great example, Oliversmum, and shows what can be achieved when the issue of something disagreed with (ie the ban) is approached sensibly. Enough folk felt strongly about it to present a proper legal challenge and in this case were successful - and good for them

I realize that won't necessarily be the end of things, but whatever the system's faults at least that group had, and took, the opportunity to influence change by using due process instead of just saying "shan't" and muttering about how unfair everything is

[Oliversmumsarmy]

How many on here saying rules are rules and if you don't comply then you can, as someone up thread said, "you can bog off" will come out and say that France banning the burkini on beaches is a rule and that rule should be upheld and the police were correct in upholding that rule.

That's the problem where you say all rules should be upheld. You cant pick and choose which rules you follow.

And ho

[mathanxiety]

You have to wonder in a case like this whether there is a huge selection of sizes and shapes to choose from at the uniform supplier's. When uniform trousers are 'too tight' is that because the parents bought a pair that was the right length or a pair that fit around the waist? Teens come in all shapes and sizes. Not all parents are equipped with a sewing machine or the skill or the time to take up a pair of trousers or redo a waist. Or it could be that someone bought a pair of trousers a month or two ago and their child had a growth spurt. 'Trousers too tight' has overtones of sexism and racism to it.

[merrymouse]

They sent the students home to change and return

Into the other pair of school approved shoes that they secretly had all along?

To choose from their vast wardrobe of black trousers?

[LineyReborn]

Academy governing bodies are not known for having an effective number of parent governors. They are more like company boards.

[CecilyP]

it would make more sense for parents to see their kids follow the rules. Like the country - organisations function well that are governed by consent.

That sounds a little pompous. And school is hardly a democracy, is it? Even the children of parents who can't be bothered deserve an education.

Merrymouse, I don't think that school's uniform is in any way unusual. I'm sure many of the kids sent away were flouting the rules. However what seems different in this case is that many of the others thought they were within the rules. They didn't realise their plain black trousers weren't quite black enough or that their sensible black brogues (definitely not trainers) weren't the black shoes the school had in mind. Where uniforms, including footwear, are supplied, this can't happen.

[pointythings]

We have a heatwave coming - let's see how many schools won't let pupils remove their blazers 'because it's the autumn term' and so it can't be hot...

Fortunately I know the school my DDs go to won't be this stupid.

[Tapandgo]

it would make more sense for parents to see their kids follow the rules. Like the country - organisations function well that are governed by consent. Schools aren't North Korea - let's not get carried away.

[Balletgirlmum]

And indeed for all its other faults my local stAte secondary (& one other that I know of) do indeed provide a set of uniform for new year 7s.

[merrymouse]

They sent the students home to change and return - they chose to remain outside the gates, encouraged by their parents.

And they could be the most rubbish of rubbish parents in all the land, and the school would still have a duty to teach them maths.

Parents are often the reason that children do well in school, but schools have to educate all children, even those with feckless good for nothing parents.

What struggling 13 year old returns to school before double maths, if at all, once they have been sent home?

Clearly the school don't trust the children to learn without military discipline. However, if that is the route they want to follow it would make more sense, like the army, to provide the uniform and keep the children in the school.

[Tapandgo]

They sent the students home to change and return - they chose to remain outside the gates, encouraged by their parents. Letters were sent warning them this would happen - so no excuse. It really isn't about wether you agree with uniform or not - this school set out its stall clearly before the holidays and letting a minority of parents dictate an alternative uniform for their kids is unworkable. The next battle will be wether their precious darlings should do detention because they too are a special case - and so it goes on for schools across the land.......

[merrymouse]

I actually think that this is quite a swift way of getting rid of the problem parents! I bet the headmaster is secretly relieved that some have gone elsewhere!

Except that the school are receiving funds to educate all local children, regardless of their parents and whether or not they wear a blazer.

I know there are plenty of parents who rush off to do sad faced news paper articles at the slightest thing.

However, you can't on the one hand tell parents that attendance is important and on the other have a policy of sending children home to improve discipline.

[Feminazi]

Parents should be supporting the school's decision.

I actually think that this is quite a swift way of getting rid of the problem parents! I bet the headmaster is secretly relieved that some have gone elsewhere!

[vickiemother]

I've already told my sons high school (where he started this week) that he will not be adhering to the wearing blazers in all weather, inside the classrooms which don't have air conditioning rule. I've always, always ensured that my children adhere to the uniform police to the letter but this is a health concern. He suffers extremely severe migraines - to the point he had CT and MRI scans as they believed it to be a brain tumour and they also had to get ethical approval for his medication due to his age. These are worse when he is hot and he already suffers at least two a week - last year his attendance was 75% and we have only just got the medication right so that these are settled at twice weekly. He will have migraines every day if they enforce this and I just can't go along with their uniform policy for this.

I haven't read all the replies as there are too many but I did see the comment about shoes being too trainer like. This was a worry for me too since my son is only a C/D fitting which they don't make for boys so it is incredibly hard to get shoes. I would prefer smarter ones than he got but at the end of the day I had to pay £52 for the nearest to smart school shoes I could get but unfortunately the velcro ones were all they had to fit him :(

[JudyCoolibar]

I think in many respects the thread has moved away from the original issue to the general question whether schools should have uniforms at all, So the issue of approaching governors has become fairly irrelevant - if people who dislike uniforms got their way, governors would have no power to impose uniforms anyway.