To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

[Puzzledconfusedandbewildered]

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

Always impressed with the school kids in India and Africa - always smart, clean, look proud to be going to school.
So, just NO excuse for kids here not to comply with the rules.

They don't have to justify everything with reference to evidence. They are in positions of authority and responsibility and that comes with discretion to make judgements. It is wishful and immature thinking to imagine that they have to keep defending their policies until you are satisfied, so yes, I feel reasonable in suggesting you grow up.

I think requiring school children to wear a uniform is completely unreasonable

I don't think sock colour etc really matters, it's about learning to adhere to rules.

I think it's far easier to get people adhering to rules and really embracing them if the rules are not petty and downright ridiculous. Rules that have a clear purpose to them and rules that seek to uphold a clearly correct principle will get you far better results than a pile of pettiness.

All rules are not equal. Implying that they are makes them all look equally ridiculous and there is a strong temptation to flout them all equally. The effect is therefore the opposite of learning to adhere to rules.

What are the usual reasons given for uniform?
Levels the playing field?
Alternative solutions to the unlevel playing field -

• Teach children to respect each other, teach them not to be so materialistic. Develop resilience.
• Maybe actually level the playing field by funding state education.

Adnerb95:
The photos are so lovely.

What you don't see is the millions of children who don't go to school because their families can't afford the mandatory uniform.

Creating outrageous and completely unnecessary barriers to school attendance is a terrible injustice and the societies where the millions of invisible children tend goats or hoe millet fields or sell stolen cigarettes on city streets for lack of a uniform are societies that are now paying and will pay in the future a huge price for their attention to appearance instead of substance.

Hmmm...2 local schools. I have worked in both. One with a policy of 'whatever, doesn't affect their learning' attitude to uniform, the other likely to make headlines in terms of strictness. Similar catchment demographics, similar results.

Students in lax school's uniform look dreadful, local community complains. Over a number of years, numbers falling. Results stagnated. Strict school students look neat and tidy. Praised in local community for politeness and good manners. Previously undersubscribed, this year oversubscribed. Results improved.

Both Ofsted visits in last 18 months. Lax school into special measures. Strict school good.

Where do you want to send your child?

Obviously there is more to it than uniform. But there is clear method to the madness.

It's sad that DPs can't tow the line - preferring to side with the kids and denigrate the school etc
Not a good idea imv to make out teachers/ head / school are petty , ridiculous / they and their rules not worthy of respect-
Hardly a good start for the years of your life which will have a greater influence than any on your future.

I was in the barbers with DC and was talking to a very nice friendly chatty Mum who was there with her son. She told the barber what SHE wanted his hair to look like. The son protested that the style she wanted was not allowed at school and that he would be put in isolation. She took no notice.

Child had a very unusual name and when I told this tale to a friend it turned out said child has a reputation for disruptive behaviour/disobeying rules. I felt for him a bit as he was getting no choice about his hair cut and was going to get in trouble for it, his reputation as rule breaker would be strengthened and it was all down to his bloody mother!

Trifleorbust:
They don't have to justify everything with reference to evidence. They are in positions of authority and responsibility and that comes with discretion to make judgements.

They are denying children the right to attend school and learn if the uniform rules are not followed.

Therefore they do need to be able to explain the educational objectives that they associate with uniform rules, because they have set high stakes for the children where uniform is concerned.

If no evidence exists to justify uniform, then their rules and consequences are indefensible.

Perhaps we should remember that in academies teachers aren't required to be qualified

I work in an Academy. There is a policy of employing qualified teachers only. It is a good school. We have no recruitment issues, even in shortage areas. I am not aware of any academies who see to employ non-qualified teaching staff. It will happen, particularly in shortage areas but you do need to remember a bad set of results can break a head's career. They are not out there taking unnecessary risks.

How many schools in Europe have to deal with 50% of parents clamouring for uniform rules? It just doesn't happen. However, in this country teachers spend ridiculous amounts of time on shouting at children about uniforms instead of teaching.

People really have trouble believing this, but student dress is a complete non-issue here. No French teacher ever wasted time asking a class of thirty to pull up their trousers and show their socks to ensure they are the right colour, and no French administrator sent a letter home about a pleat in a pair of plain trousers. All the terrible things that are predicted without uniforms simply fail to happen, even in deprived areas (my son's middle school is among the most deprived schools in the country). The whole "short skirts and labels" thing is a myth: if you don't make clothing a battleground, teenagers are less likely to see it as a way of shocking or offending adults.

(That is my experience too Mistiri)

'Mistigri', sorry

Obviously there is more to it than uniform. But there is clear method to the madness.

I assume you don't teach maths . Correlation does not mean causation.

There is no evidence that having a strict uniform improves learning outcomes.

And if learning outcomes were the only thing schools had to concern themselves with then that would be fine.

However, in the UK, schools are increasingly delegated tasks such as child protection, citizenship skills, discipline, self restraint and other jobs parents can't be arsed with

Uniform is not about academic learning but about all the other crap schools are expected to deliver. It's a blunt instrument - but one which takes least amount of time away from actually teaching

In what way does uniform contribute to child protection, citizenship, discipline and restraint? What evidence do you have that it's a cost effective way of doing this?

I don't have a big issue with sensible uniform policies, but justifying them with fact-free bilge irritates me.

Fair enough to insist on school tie being worn etc but I always think that head teachers who are massively anal over inconsequential crap like sock colour are focussing on making everything look good at the cost of dealing with 'invisible' problems - papering over the cracks.

I think this head should concentrate on providing a high standard of education, ensuring that there is no bullying, reducing truancy. All the important stuff.

As an aside, he isn't going to have a leg to stand on when parents decide to take them on holiday during term time, since he values school attendance so little that he will send them home for wearing white socks that no one can even see!

Trifel, authority and responsibility comes hand in hand with accountability. Schools are their for the community not for their own edification. Schools and parents need to work together this is not aided by promoting a "take it or leave it attitude"

Yes, he has basically throen away a lot of good will on his first day. Not the smartest move.

There have been a number of small scale studies like this one:

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15388220.2012.706873?scroll=top&needAccess=true

Fact-free bilge ?

I don't mind school uniform, if it's reasonably sensible, cheap and comfortable. DD's infant school is good. DSD and DSS secondary (academy...) is ridiculous - overpriced items, uncomfortable blazer etc.

What I hate about these threads is that there's always loads of people piping up about 'they'll have to learn to abide by uniform rules at work' and that kind of thing. I have a very successful career. I don't wear a uniform. Nor do I have a dress code.

I've worked plenty of jobs on the way to this career where I have had to wear uniform and I have managed just fine. But I hate the restrictive idea that wearing a blazer and tie will prepare you for all work eventualities.

At the end of the day, if your child's school has a uniform policy, just send the child in the correct uniform (whether you agree with it or not). If you do your bit, the school won't have to tackle the issue at all. No problem all round. It's not rocket science. It's not hard to buy black socks instead of white.

I totally understand that some people are anti uniform, that's fair enough. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't encourage your child to follow the rules. If you don't agree with the rules, take your concerns to the school, set up a petition etc. Don't just ignore the rule and then complain that there were consequences to your actions.

Seeing these threads makes me so happy that where I went to school had no uniform rules or even make up/hair/piercing rules. You were there to learn and yout clothes didn't stop you from doing that.
Also no one was bullied about their clothes, about other things yeah but never actually about clothes.

I am not sure if I would want my children to go to school in the UK or not as there more I hear about british schools the more worried I get. Luckily me and DP are not yet having children so I have few more years to decide.

"there are plenty of awful school who have very loose uniforms of simply don't enforce it "

This was from a poster towing the 'if you don't like it, don't go to the school' line. Such a myth, that good schools have strict uniform codes, but one that parents buy into and Academies and Free Schools like to exploit in order to give the impression that they are good , keep up appearances, bump up your A-C C GCSE results with tons of Mickey Mouse subjects, ban students from taking GCSEs unless you are sure they will get a C and for goodness sake wear the school socks!

Funny how top sought after comps like Camden Girls, and the best primary near me manage good results and happy, well disciplined pupils without encasing them in a polyester version of a post colonial public school outfit.

Let's just treat our young people with respect and let them wear their own clothes .