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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

804 replies

Puzzledconfusedandbewildered · 06/09/2016 16:49

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

OP posts:
helenbaker · 07/09/2016 18:11

I meant

We all have to dress/act/do things we DON'T like in life. It's about conforming to society.

ElleBellyBeeblebrox · 07/09/2016 18:12

Why the fuck should it be so important to teach our children to "conform to society"?
It's been made clear that it's not always about people feeling like they can't be arsed to follow the rules, it may be about finances, or family problems, or additional needs.

yougottheshining · 07/09/2016 18:13

NickiFury I would imagine that lots of children have sensory issues including children who otherwise would be able to access mainstream education so it seems nonsense to create a barrier for them.

pointythings · 07/09/2016 18:18

Not all schools have second hand shops, that is a myth.

mothermayi other than conflating French laws on religious dress and quoting stories from the US have you got any data on running dress code battles in the majority of schools in places like Sweden, Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium... There are many more and posters here who are in those systems have confirmed that they do. Not. Happen.

mammamic · 07/09/2016 18:19

YABU as it depends on so many other factors

I went to grammar school way back when and they were extremely strict on uniform etc.

The rule breakers were usually those students who had the academic levels to get to grammar school but were from low income families so, example, the black plimsolls they wore were used for everything - indoor shoe, outdoor shoe, gym/PE shoe. Same for rest of uniform. Cheaper alternatives used or sibling hand me downs.

I loathe trainers being used as shoes but really - what difference does it make? If parents want to ruin their kids feet, surely that should be there choice - as long as they are the required colour, then whatever footwear should be acceptable if it's safe and appropriate.

Socks - not even getting involved in that one - ridiculous.

I'm a rebel though - constantly trying to cajole my 'tow the line' DD to break a few rules. Rules are there to be broken, whatever the reasons. I was lucky to be gifted academically (note, past tense LOL) and was in the top few of my year (180 students). I performed well consistently, always in top 3 for exams etc. Always respectful. Attended all classes bla bla bla

I was made to spend weeks at home in a crucial 5th year (now year 11) because my hair was too short. Really? It had a huge impact on my results and completely disengaged me from a system I already found boring and ridiculous.

Going to try and convince my 12 yr old DD to dye her hair violet again. Managed it at the beginning of summer but only cos she knew it would wash out by end of holidays....

JudyCoolibar · 07/09/2016 18:19
  1. Not making lack of wardrobe a way of bullying poorer kids and kids competing on dress.

In schools where there is no uniform, it doesn't happen. In practice kids tend to settle down into wearing jeans and a top and don't compete. Face it, if a bully wants to bully, having uniform is definitely not going to prevent it. Schools should address bullying at source.

2)Clear expectation on dress, not wasting endless hours on arguing with students and parents on whether an outfit meets dress code or not.

But the reality is that wasting endless hours arguing about uniform is precisely what schools do. By contrast, schools with no uniform waste no time because they don't care whether children's trousers are the right shade of black and don't have to nag them to put on pointless, uncomfortable blazers when they're hot.

3)Teaching kids to follow rules.Do you think it matters if military recruits don't have perfectly ironed creases and spotless boots? No! But it matters if they can't follow instructions absolutely when they are servicing a tank etc. Nearly every job has rules or protocals which must be followed.

Soldiers in the army need to be able to follow orders more or less unthinkingly because matters of life and death hinge on them. Self-evidently that doesn't apply to school pupils or to people in the vast majority of jobs school pupils are likely to end up in. Most jobs of any value require employees to use their brains, critical functions and logic: that means not following rules blindly because they are there.

An example of the stupidity of this sort of expectation: I worked in an office where people routinely stayed until the job was done or even came in at weekends without pay to do it. A rule-bound idiot turned up who started making a massive issue about people being 30 seconds late back from lunch or taking what he deemed to be loo breaks that were too long. Result: people started walking out of the door at 5.30 on the dot, shutting down computers mid word if necessary, and productivity fell through the floor. That's what comes of making people follow instructions "absolutely" even when they are clearly stupid or counter-productive.

4 Gives student a safe way of rebelling

That counters everything you've just said about students learning to obey rules. Children who want to rebel will do so all the more if you insist on stupid rules which make you look like a petty jobsworth, because they will have zero respect for you.

Bestthingever · 07/09/2016 18:20

To answer the Op, it is difficult to adhere to the rules when they are always changing. My ds wore a certain style in year 7 without comment. Then in year 8 he was told they were unacceptable. We bought a different style without complaint and he wore them til he left in year 9. I bought the same style for his brother in year 7. He went through year 7 without complaint. We bought the same style again in year 8. Half way through the year his tutor started to say they were against the rules. I thought it was just her until the head of year stopped me at parents evening and said they weren't acceptable. I said but I've been buying this style for three or four years without complaint. He said yes but we've changed our definition of what is acceptable. That is unfair to parents. I actually told him to send me a link to a specific pair and I will buy it without an argument. He said they couldn't do that. I'm actually getting weary of this.

JudyCoolibar · 07/09/2016 18:20

Sorry, should have put those numbered bits in bold to show they were quotes.

Balletgirlmum · 07/09/2016 18:21

I think one of the issues is that the rules were changed over the holidays. Also there seems to have been no lenience for new year 7s misunderstanding.

The boy who had the operation - that is appalling - it's discrimination at its worst.

For all the problems with ds's school which oddly is private they have a very strict uniform but jumpers are optional. At the start of term children were allowed to go in wrong items if for example there was a stock problem.

Dss socks got wet one day - wearing his White PE socks was fine. He lost his tie, school allowed him to stay in class & lent him one from the second hand shop.

His shoes went missing during the school play dress rehearsal. He was allowed to wear his trainers until they turned up.

Basically common sense & compassion was used.

JudyCoolibar · 07/09/2016 18:25

Fine if children like blazers, they're more than welcome to wear them in schools without uniform. But if they're part of the school uniform and the school suddenly notices that they end up looking scruffy and shabby and abolishes them, they'll have to do without. You'll probably find the school then makes you pay £30 for a book bag like in that thread we had the other day.

bubblegurl252 · 07/09/2016 18:26

With regards to the girl with white socks, she was made to remove them and by the end of the day she had painful bleeding feet

Arseicle · 07/09/2016 18:28

Rules are rules. We all have to dress/act/do things we like in life. It's about conforming to society

Such bullshit. I don't have to dress in any way to suit anyone else, why should my child? If a job has a uniform code, I can not take the job. They can't not go to school. And even if I do have a job with a uniform code, they wouldn't get away with sending me home because my skirt was slightly too short or long and they wouldn't be allowed to tell me my hair needs to be a certain length!

A vague uniform, fine. My kids have a uniform and its fine. But they wear whatever shoes they want, they have what hair they want, and if they come in wearing non uniform items I might get a pleasant note reminding me, not them sent away from school!

bubblegurl252 · 07/09/2016 18:28

I love that someone pointed out the fines for taking our kids out during term time when we could simply send them in in the wrong colour socks lol

Balletgirlmum · 07/09/2016 18:30

My Neice inadvertently went in white socks on her first day in year 7. Her mum is a TA so worked in schools she jay didn't realise that they wear black dicks in secondary.

Luckily Neice was treated kindly & just asked to come in different ones the next day. Upsetting a child in their first day can lead to the whole of their school life bring seen as negative. Neice is very timid & being treated like that girl was would have been devastating.

jayne1976 · 07/09/2016 18:31

Ridiculous, I saw it all popping up online parents reporting it to the tabloids - same every year. My daughter went to school in what look like skinny jeans but they're actually a lightweight cotton stretch trouser, and just abut of makeup and got sent home!

jayne1976 · 07/09/2016 18:31

Just buy sensible recommended stuff

yougottheshining · 07/09/2016 18:38

jayne1976 I've read your posts a couple of times and can't make out what your point is. Do you have a daughter? Are her trousers sensible? (Whatever that means. ) Did you spend a lot of time being excluded from school?

HelenaDove · 07/09/2016 18:41

I find it very concerning that an FE college (and its not the first time ive heard of it) are getting involved in so called back to work schemes which involve sanctions.

It will mean that the people sent on them will hate and distrust education even more.

oldgrandmama · 07/09/2016 18:41

The usual 'Daily Wail' sad-faces pictures ... with girls wearing what are obviously leggings, or jeggings, instead of trousers.

Good for the Head. But as for the boy who had a hip replacement - I do see why he was advised to wear some special cushioned sort of shoe - I was advised the same (but I'm an old crone with dodgy hips). But there are plenty of other well-cushioned shoes suitable for hip problems - the boy's surgeon, physio would have been happy to advise.. And, anyway, I'm sure if the mum had liaised with the school about making an exception for her son re wearing special trainers, it could have been resolved.

But as for the rest of the parents - the Head is starting as he means to go on, and hurrah for him. MOST parents follow their kids' schools uniform rules and I can quite see the point of them - it stops the awful bullying and sneering that can go on in 'mufti' schools, where kids not wearing the right, fashionable, and often expensive clothes can be bullied and/or belittled. Uniforms are a great leveller.

The parents should get a grip. They've had plenty of time during the long summer holiday to get the uniform sorted. Just because their little darlings moaned and whinged about wearing 'proper' trousers rather than tight leggings/jeggings/skinny jean type pants, or wanted tight skirts ... or insisted on white, instead of black socks, or insisted on totally unsuitable shoes. Still, it's been a great couple of days for the Daily Fail - not just the 'sad faces' but also comparing the Head's stand as 'Gestapo' tactics.

Muckersesquire · 07/09/2016 18:43

I live next to the school in question. The police weren't called in they were driving pass and noticed the commotion. The parents had over 2 hours to take the kids home. What the parents didn't consider is when the school clothes list stated plain black shoes they needed to be accessory free as in no gold/silver detailing and Matt black not patented black. The girl who removed white socks and got blisters had the option to go home and change to black socks but decided getting blisters would be better. Some parents weren't alerted their child wasn't allowed into school so they were wandering around allegedly - may kids have door keys and mobile phones though... The choice to change was there and yet still 6 children were sent away again on day 2.

Arseicle · 07/09/2016 18:46

the Head is starting as he means to go on, and hurrah for him. MOST parents follow their kids' schools uniform rules and I can quite see the point of them - it stops the awful bullying and sneering that can go on in 'mufti' schools, where kids not wearing the right, fashionable, and often expensive clothes can be bullied and/or belittled. Uniforms are a great leveller

If you can't tell the difference between a basic "levelling" uniform and this kind of extreme, up your own arse, god complex shite......

a7mints · 07/09/2016 18:54

they wear black dicks in secondary

I do hope that was a typo Grin

SunnyBanker · 07/09/2016 18:54

What the parents didn't consider is when the school clothes list stated plain black shoes they needed to be accessory free as in no gold/silver detailing and Matt black not patented black

The whole shoe thing is ridiculous...'plain black shoes' - there was one picture of a tiny silver tag on a pair of plain black shoes and they got refused. The head is a loon and the advance notice of the uniform required wasn't specific enough.

HelenaDove · 07/09/2016 18:57

Matt black not patented black.

Im assuming most parents dont have the powers of Mystic Meg.

BlackeyedSusan · 07/09/2016 18:58

sensible uniform, yes. keeping blazers on in hot classrooms, not sensible.

shoes that will accomodate orthotics would be nice.