To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

[Puzzledconfusedandbewildered]

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

Kids who rock up in wrong uniforms look like shit most of the time. It never hurt anyone to look smart for fucks sake or to follow SIMPLE rules. I also think it does effect learning. If half the class are sitting there in the latest trainers, neon bra, face full of make up I can't see how that is encouraging learning. It's turning school into a fashion parade and a contest of 'who's the coolest'.

My dc's school banned pencil cases and stationary this year, no idea why but did seem strange!

Dibs, my dc primary school did that last year, still no idea why.

Of course, they waited until after we'd bought it all.

There is a psychological effect to wearing a uniform.
It focuses the mind in the same way wearing smart attire in the office makes you feel and behave more professional. The way wearing a costume helps you assume a character role.
It's a discipline that works.
The headmaster is trying to improve the school and the attitude of the kids. Enforcing a uniform rule is the start.
It's probably a big shock to those kids who are not used to rules and boundaries and for their parents who don't like to enforce any discipline.

I am totally supportive of the headmaster.

gotta there is no evidence of that.
it's just powerplay by the (head) teacher vs (lowly) pupils.

I think a uniform policy is a good idea but it should be simple to follow.

Our primary one is super easy, cheap and practical and I've not heard of anyone having any issues. All the kids always look the same, look smart (well at 9am they do ) and are easily spottable when out and about on school trips etc. Navy jumper or cardigan, decent quality logo ones are available for £10 but plain ones are fine, Black or gray trousers, skirt or shorts and white polo shirts or actual shirts/blouses. So easy and simple and super practical for younger kids who are running around all the time. No jewellery, no make up, no hair dye.

It really isn't that hard to follow a uniform policy. Loads of people are moaning about DDs secondary uniform but tbh it's very simple; Tartan Skirt, School logo Blazer, School logo Tie from uniform shop (for boys they can wear plain black pants so even easier) then plain white shirt and white socks from tesco. Shoes must be black polishable leather with a low heel and strap (ie not slip ons). No make up, No unnatural coloured hair dye, no extreme haircuts (although to be fair they haven't specified what constitutes an extreme haircut!) no jewellery. Hair bobbles to be black or navy and hair tied back for lessons like science for safety reasons. PE kit is a specific sports top, shorts and socks. They can wear any trainers they like for PE and no one cares what bag they have.

I fail to understand every year why this is so hard? If you think the policy is stupid send your kids to a different school.

Our secondary school rules said that canvas shoes weren't allowed but kids wore them. One arbitrary day they decide to enforce the rule so I have to replace £40 brand new Vans which he won't wear at weekends.

Presumably they HAD to enforce the rule because so many people were wearing these shoes despite being TOLD they were against the uniform policy. You knew they were against policy and bought them anyway so sorry you don't get to moan about it.

These problems with parents pupils and uniforms never seem to happen at Grammar or Comprehensives in the most prosperous areas!

As ever you have stupid parents moaning about how much school uniform costs despite buying trainers costing upwards of £150 for their DC . The parents who send their children back to school with the wrong shoes skirts trousers and hair cuts are the ones who typically 'hated' teachers at school !.

They also enjoy their 2 minutes of 'sticking' it to the school by being interviewed by the 'PAPER' . The stupidity of those parents makes them unable to see that people reading the 'paper' understand these parents to be 'SLOBS' .

The fact you never hear of grammar schools or other highly sought after Comprehensive schools tells you everything you need to know. 'fighting' the authorities over what color socks a child is allowed to wear is more important for these 'numpties' than their child's education !

As a forces brat, I went to 6 different schools. 3 had uniform, 3 didn't. My attitude, performance etc. were absolutely no different in any of them.

The head was on the news just now. I think he came across quite well tbh. There was acknowledgement that some rules were not clear and if he had his time again he would be clearer.

whywontthe I love your username.

That is all.

Pitchfork - There is plenty of evidence and research into the psychological effect of wearing uniform, for example: Adam, H. & Galinsky, A. D. (In Press). Enclothed Cognition. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology.

The head teacher is not 'power playing' =he is responsible for the school and reputation and must be a leader.

And yes - pupils should be 'lowly' - they are children and there to learn and adhere to the rules. It seems that these 60+ pupils aren't lowly enough.

The Adam and Galinsky study does not deal with children and in particular does not deal with the massive body of evidence supplied by virtue of the attainment of children in countries with little or no school uniform tradition.

sandyholme, did you go to a school with a uniform? Only it doesn't seem to have taught you the proper use of single quote marks, commas or capital letters.

It focuses the mind in the same way wearing smart attire in the office makes you feel and behave more professional.

It really doesn't, you know. It makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable and therefore less productive. A number of businesses report better productivity and motivation on dress down days.

There is a middle ground between blindly obeying every rule because it's a rule and complete anarchy. I believe that, if a rule is imposed, there should be a rationale for it that makes sense.
There is a reason why long hair needs to be tied back for PE or when using a Bunsen burner. There is a reason for not running in the corridor. There is a reason why a young child needs to hold a parent's hand when crossing the road. Many of the examples given about work dress code are to do with health and safety.
If a 13 year old asks why everyone has to wear knee length black socks, what is the answer? It just comes down to 'Because that's the rule'. I agree with a PP that that sort of attitude is likely to make some children less inclined to follow rules because they can see that the rules don't make any sense.
I remember going to an open day when we were looking at secondary schools. It was 33 degrees outside. We went into a
lesson and there were 25 Y8 kids sitting there in black blazers. Many of them were literally dripping with sweat. One of the boys put his hand up and politely asked if he could take his blazer off. The teacher just said 'No' and turned back to the white board. There was no way any of those poor kids were learning anything.
I totally agree that this is happening at a time when dress code in the workplace is becoming more and more relaxed. I'm a CPN and I don't even know if my trust has a dress code for community staff beyond just using your common sense. I can wear jeans, I can dye my hair, I can even wear shorts. I'm sure none of my patients give a fuck what I wear as long as I'm competent and compassionate.
There was a rule not that long ago that black and white Americans had to sit in separate areas of the bus. I can imagine Rosa Parks posting on here about it and getting a string of 'But those are the RULES, if you don't like it, walk!' replies.

Those advocating no uniform at all need to understand in countries where they do not have uniform they still have a dress code and items that are not permitted, so they still have the same running battles on inappropriate attire.

I live in one of those countries. The battles are certainly not the same at all. When a wider range of choice is allowed, there are fewer battles. Foot wear is a prime example.

If you want to demean somebody, first do the research on them ! Otherwise don't make 'demeaning' incorrect and offensive remarks about people you don't know !

I also was not trying to write a University dissertation , thus so picking up on a hugely dyslexic person on their posting manner is a poor showing !

If half the class are sitting there in the latest trainers, neon bra, face full of make up I can't see how that is encouraging learning. It's turning school into a fashion parade and a contest of 'who's the coolest'

See, I teach in a university and this is what half of my first-years look like.

And you know what's funny?

It doesn't make a jot of difference, not one jot, to their learning. You cannot tell which students will come out with which degrees by how conservative their dress is, how much make-up they wear, etc.

In fact, two of my brightest students in recent years have been a transwoman with a full-on face of slap every day, and a lovely young man with skinnyskinny jeans and a belt that read 'Open All Hours'

Both achieved Firsts.

Also, I went to a school with no uniform policy. In the US. It sent a record number of pupils to Ivy League universities and is consistently rated in the top 150 high schools in the whole of the States.

And they manage all that despite not making the kids wear exactly the same shade of navy polyester. HOW, I ask you??!

gotta there is no evidence of that. it's just powerplay by the (head) teacher vs (lowly) pupils

Power play? The Head is the authority in the school. It is about discipline and creating an environment of order and learning.
You need what some consider to be 'petty' rules so that you develop an attitude of respect and order.
You can't have hundreds of pupils making up their own rules to suit themselves, even when it comes to uniform.
The kids are at school, not a social environment.
The behaviour standards in schools have continually got worse the more 'freedom' the children have been given in what they wear and what they want to do. I don't know how teachers can cope with it.

We excluded fewer than 1% of Job Centre referred learners, over 80% achieved qualifications, around 13% on average were in paid work within 8 weeks of completing the course (over 20% for our non UK learners) - although this figure is very volatile. We had no say over whether they were sanctioned by the Job Centre, however being excluded from a mandatory course could well lead to sanctioning without extenuating circumstances. We did not recommend it, it was beyond our remit. Our department helped students access dental care, community services and referred people for assessment for SEN. We helped people understand their utility bills. We were often alerted their Job Centre advisors of special circumstances to ensure they weren't sanctioned for non-attendance. This was often necessary for our refugees who received news of the deaths of close family in their country of origin. Our failure to succeed with a minority of students isn't a reason to deny the majority access to a second (or first) chance at an education.

seneca agreed. When I was at high school, pretty much the only disallowed things were offensive slogans and showing genitalia. I think maybe once a girl got asked to cover her midriff. Maybe.

Except for phys ed and science experiments, where the rules were obviously there for a reason, we wore what we wanted.

And we learned! I still use knowledge gained from that high school education on a daily basis.

They shouldn't be denied access to education, Drizzle.

Those who want to attend FE college courses on a voluntary basis should be able to do so.

But making courses mandatory if a person wants to receive basic benefits is going to impact on students' behaviour.

I don't know why you keep mentioning refugees when you have already said they are not the group who your college is finding have behavioural issues on the course.

You need what some consider to be 'petty' rules so that you develop an attitude of respect and order.

To me this is a very scary concept in a democratic society. Schools should teach critical thinking and an important aspect of this is to question, and even to challenge, the reasonableness and fairness of rules.

Those advocating no uniform at all need to understand in countries where they do not have uniform they still have a dress code and items that are not permitted, so they still have the same running battles on inappropriate attire.

Do you live in one of "one countries"? I do. It's difficult to have running battles when there are essentially no rules about clothing (the only thing forbidden is any outward sign of religious affiliation).

johnny don't get me wrong I am not suggesting the cool kids are the stupid kids at all! I know full well that's not the case but those kids who are bright AND cool are very lucky as they already have confidence. What about the poor kid at the back who has no choice but to stick to the rules because he blends in better that way?

Much of the issue is about drafting an appropriate and easily understood policy and enforcing the policy as it is written not as the staff hoped it would look. Another major point is giving adequate notice of changes.

For example when I was at school the school changed from a fairly relaxed dress code (certain colours, no slogans, no ripped jeans etc) to a full uniform. This was announced in July for the following September meaning clothing that hadn't been outgrown was wasted (one legal colour was totally outlawed and things like black jeans, leggings and trainers were no longer allowed).

Then when following the ban on trainers and coloured footwear loads of pupils bought black Dr Martins. They then tried to ban these mid year. This was opposed and eventually let go.

Then there were things that simply weren't anticipated. The uniform didn't specify sock colour but several pupils were told off for wearing coloured socks. Tank top type jumpers weren't anticipated and caused confusion. Skirt length wasn't specified but staff would tell girls their skirt was too short with no suitable measure or standard to adhere too.

Personally I found debating interpretations of the uniform policy hugely entertaining, and great practice for interpreting legal matters in later years 😀 but some pupils found it very upsetting to think they were following the rules and find they weren't. It also put a lot of pressure on parents to buy whole new outfits even when previous uniform had not been outgrown and in some cases to then replace new items because the black round neck jumper was the wrong style or the skirt too short.