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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

804 replies

Puzzledconfusedandbewildered · 06/09/2016 16:49

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

OP posts:
Dragonglass · 07/09/2016 11:22

lt does not cost any more to buy Clarkes school shoes than trainers

I bought my sons black trainers for between £10 and £20. Which Clarks school shoes are that price?

DoristheNovice · 07/09/2016 11:30

I personally find that Clarkes shoes are utter shite and fall apart way too easily. I've yet to find any school shoes that are as sturdy as some of the leather 'trainers' that are available.

almondpudding · 07/09/2016 11:39

DD ended up in isolation due to this one year. Although she was in isolation with 150 other people, so it was not very isolating.

She had plain black shoes, but they were canvas.

We did not buy them instead of school shoes. They were an old pair she happened to have. We couldn't afford to buy any new shoes at all.

BarbarianMum · 07/09/2016 11:46

Well "adhering to uniform rules" at our local secondary yesterday meant that all children had to keep their jumpers on all day, despite it being hot and muggy. So much better for their learning that they look identical rather than be comfortable. Hmm

Dragonglass · 07/09/2016 11:48

These Clarks shoes were £48 and were still no good. They look perfectly fine to me, practical for children to wear all day.

www.bristolpost.co.uk/do-these-48-clarks-school-shoes-look-like-trainers-to-you/story-29689778-detail/story.html

LightDrizzle · 07/09/2016 11:50

YANBU. I went to my northern, market town, comprehensive in the 80s, before designer brands were as potent or prevalent, but I still remember the vile cruelty meted out to a girl in my RE class to a girl who wore unmatching, unflattering "granny" clothes. I also remember the time I wasted agonising about what I would wear to school to ensure I looked cool enough but not too cool; and I had plenty of friends, had never experienced bullying and was destined for Oxbridge as it turns out.

I recently worked in the Employability department of a large FE college, all our students were 19+ adults referred by the Job Centre to address skills deficits that had been identified as barriers to finding employment, I taught foreign learners who were a joy and performed exceptionally. They had the highest % of achieving employment within 8 weeks of finishing their course of any class list in our school, despite only having entry level English. However I had management responsibility for other courses so while I didn't teach UK born students (I occasionally covered), issues arising were referred up to me.
It was so depressing, some had complex issues, but a unifying theme with the sizeable minority who were disruptive, was an inability to accept any rules, accept authority or exercise any impulse control. The number of times someone "only lost it" with the teacher because "I'm alright as long as no one tells me what to do, but if people start telling me what to do, I go mental" etc. I was told everybody else gets this and lets them do what they want, so the teacher shouldn't have asked them to put their phone in their bag / remove their earphones.

We'd talk through the impact of their behaviour on the rest of the class, about the fact that any workplace has rules although they will differ depending on the employer; the fact that all jobs include elements that nobody enjoys doing but that they have to be done. With intensive work and liaison with their JCP advisors sometimes people do start to moderate their behaviour and go on to achieve. However some have got so used to being accommodated because of their need to be "respected", they don't believe we won't do the same if they make teachers' lives unpleasant enough. In these extreme situations, after many attempts to support, I'd resort to the mantra "In that case, I'm very sorry but X College is not the right place for you, we are unable to meet your needs." The incredulity from one particular man who had been a nightmare, finally racially abusing the teacher and threatening him with violence, disrupting the class etc., - was amazing. "What do you mean?" I repeated that if he needed to be in an environment without any rules where he could do what he wanted, then unfortunately we were unable to meet his needs, and I added that he had to leave. "But I don't want to leave, if I don't finish the course or the Job Centre will stop my benefit" [JSA] we went round and round, he just could believe that it was time for him to fuck of and that a 5ft fucking manager was going to make it happen. As he was being escorted off he was still shouting: "What about my benefits?". The gratitude and relief of other students when their teacher tells them that "Sadly X won't be returning to class with us." is telling.

Our college had a massive crack down on what might be considered petty classroom management whilst I worked there. No hats or caps/ phones switched off in bags/ only water in class / coats off in class (I would allow and write up exceptions in my lesson plan for recently arrived
refugees who hadn't yet got warm clothing, we helped them access clothes banks at local refugee charities). I wouldn't have believed the impact on behaviour. If the pros and cons of these rules are discussed critically as a part of induction, and politely but consistently enforced, the classrooms are so much calmer and the students really benefit. I am converted and I think they are critical non-essentials. I do think that having a warm, inclusive, supportive class culture is essential to this working but it is absolutely possible to have both.

I'd be interested in the experience of other teachers.

Apologies for typos, I'm on my iPhone.

almondpudding · 07/09/2016 11:54

FE colleges shouldn't be doing that role then.

Shezza71 · 07/09/2016 12:00

Uniform can be tricky for some but obviously there are people who want to push boundaries, girls with acrylic nails, hair extensions and way too much make, boys wanting to wear the latest trainers however, my nephew has hyper mobility normal shoes are so painful for him, there are a few pairs of trainers that are comfortable and my sister managed to get these in black, he also has other issues which she has spent his first year of senior school battling for some support. My daughter and niece are slightly larger than what is considered average so the specified school trousers were on the snug side for them and my friend dd is tiny and has trouble finding normal clothes to fit well school trousers were a nightmare my eldest dd in senior school had a dark grey duffle coat for winter, an issue because it wasn't black or navy, one teacher would confiscate it every week that she was on door duty, even in winter and at one point actually lost, there was no issue with black leather jackets though. So it's not always easy

FRETGNIKCUF · 07/09/2016 12:02

Plenty of other countries may well do well without uniform, but do we know that? Do we know there's no bullying issue? Do we know whether kids break the same sort of rules? We don't really do we?

Finnish people don't seem to be such bastards as us over here, generally.

Seriously these parents never protest schools that don't deal with bullying, schools that close their libraries, cut their SEN budgets...

but tell special individual Doris that she can't wear heels or Johnny can't wear trainers or stuff his face with chips and out they come.

Lancelottie · 07/09/2016 12:02

It's very easy to fit a standard-shaped, medium-footed child into acceptable school uniform; far harder to get an acceptable version to fit a plump or skinny one with weird feet.

DD's school tried to get round the problem by selling a single style of trousers through the school website in 'sizes to fit all'. Except they don't. They assume a standard shape and scale it up, so DD (slim hips, relatively wide waist) would have to have a crotch flapping comically around her kneecaps.

God help us if they try to enforce a single shoe style.

StopMakingMeLogOn · 07/09/2016 12:05

Dragon those shoes look fine to me and if I was yhe parent I would take my case up with the governors and LEA. It's pne thing to object to trainers but another to make arbitrary rulings about how a black leather shoe looks like a trainer - that's opinion, not fact.

Schools have a lot of support from parents when they are sensible and fair.

overwhelmed34 · 07/09/2016 12:12

YANBU
The question here is nothing to do with what children wear in other countries, or whether uniform is good idea or not...irrelevant! The point is there is a uniform, they were told clearly at the end of the previous term that it would be enforced. Even with pictures! It says black socks...so just buy black socks!
If the school then didn't follow through on this they set themselves up to be walked all over for the rest of the year, as well as being unfair to those that have made an effort.
Go head teacher!
Btw at my son's old primary they wore polo shirts and tracksuit bottoms, it was amazing! But I wouldn't just break the rules at his new school because I preferred something else, and then expect no consequences! Ridiculous!

blueturtle6 · 07/09/2016 12:18

Imo, uniform is a good idea, teaches to be smart for later life. I once interviewed someone for a job wearing trainers, it may not have affected how they did job but doesn't create the best first impression

amberlabamba · 07/09/2016 12:21

Schools should have the support of the parents because they are the rules of the school that you have chosen to send your children to... It is irrelevant whether they are considered fair or reasonable - and that is subjective anyway.

VAT/tax isn't 'fair' - shall we all refuse to pay that? No - because there are consequences for breaking the rules - and it is our duty as parents and teachers to teach our children about life!

BarbarianMum · 07/09/2016 12:22

Actually, I disagree totally. It teaches you how to wear a uniform. A dress code teaches you to assemble a smart outfit from a variety of possibilities, which is a much more useful skill for real life.

BoreOfWhabylon · 07/09/2016 12:23

Masketti the "too pretty" story is a spoof -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35612405

LightDrizzle · 07/09/2016 12:36

Why do you say that? Our department was successful and even if they didn't find work, the majority of our students reported hugely increased confidence, achieved QCF qualifications, and enjoyed their courses, often having hated school and barely attended. It offers a second chance for a very disadvantaged group.

overwhelmed34 · 07/09/2016 12:37

Exactly Amber

pleasemothermay1 · 07/09/2016 12:45

poster BarbarianMum Wed 07-Sep-16 11:46:08

My husband is a nurse has to have bear arms all the time whatever the weather that'sit those are the rules

Fireman have to wear gear irasepctive of the weather no one died at the school your children were not harmed

Most informs don't have summer or winter or are interchanble due to weather it's a good lesson for your child to learn as also another lesson is that other people have Diffrent expections about displine

Your attTudie is if the rules don't suit don't follow them at your sons school it's clear its do as your frigging told quite right to

almondpudding · 07/09/2016 12:58

Because an FE college should have no part in removing benefits.

I would feel vastly different about taking a coat off as part of basic courteous behaviour and being told to remove a coat by a person who if I did not obey could get me kicked off a course, which would lead to me losing benefits and becoming destitute and homeless.

Surely you can see that the bigger the stakes, the more power the rule maker has, and the more resistant and resentful people becoming about abiding by those rules?

The threatening man has not stopped being a problem for society. He's just stopped being a problem for your college.

Services need to be put in place that can deal with the most excluded people. FE colleges are simply not equipped to deal with the most excluded people, hence your need to have them excluded and walked off the premises.

BarbarianMum · 07/09/2016 12:58

The examples you give have very clear reasons behind them - infection control and safety. In the vast majority of jobs adults can adjust their clothing to help regulate their body temperature. I can think of no good reason why children can not choose for themselves whether to keep their school jumper on or take it off - they would still be in uniform either way.

SuburbanRhonda · 07/09/2016 13:04

On teacher training days most kids wear jeans/trainers/leggings etc

Children aren't in school on teacher training days so of course they wear what they want - they're at home!

Masketti · 07/09/2016 13:04

Bore thank God for that! Cheers for the link.

TheNaze73 · 07/09/2016 13:09

Of course YANBU.

Hearing some of those parents on Jeremy Vine, moaning about the school policy, staggered me. Their arrogance & sense of entitlement was astonishing

LordTrash · 07/09/2016 13:11

Both my dds have been told not to wear certain items again.

In dd1's case, a skirt that didn't (quite) reach the knee. In her case, because she is very tall and slim, the only skirts that reach her knee would slide down over her hips. It's a matter of about half an inch, and hardly a sexy number - A-line with box pleats.

In dd2's case, a pair of George school trousers, black and straight cut, as per the uniform rules, but she was told they were 'too skinny'. This is a pair of trousers dd1 wore for a couple of terms with no problem.

Fair enough, I signed up for the school, but I didn't sign up for this kind of nitpicking crap.