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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is discrimination and its damn right wrong.

241 replies

EvalionAngel · 03/09/2016 19:14

A Salford woman is 'too fat' to look after children, says council

dailym.ai/2c2xwoB

If this was race it would be wrong if this was a disability it would be wrong if this was gender it would be wrong. So why is fat discrimination allowed. Time for overweight people to be protected under discrimination and hate speech laws. Overweight people have to face daily abuse and thin privilege. The same way black and POC face white privileges and women face make privilege.

I'm so sick of this.

Sorry for the rant.

OP posts:
WankingMonkey · 04/09/2016 14:51

She said: 'You can be a foster parent, if you are single, and regardless of your sexuality, so why stop me because of my weight, I think they are discriminating unfairly.

Sorry but what does being single or your sexuality have to do with this? It takes a lot of energy to run around after kids..and I say this as someone who is not exactly thin. I understand the decision kind of, but hope there was more to it than her weight. I know one obese lady (talking maybe 25 stone or so) who is fitter than most of my thin friends! I shit you not. She is always doing the gym and such and runs marathons, but eats way too much. So if it was based solely on her weight, I think its slightly unreasonable but I suspect it was fitness too.

limon · 04/09/2016 14:55

She's morbidly obese. Her own life is at risk because of her weight and I doubt very much if she is fit and healthy enough. Plus I would question her ability to make healthy food choices, although I'll probably be shot down in flanes for that one.

yeOldeTrout · 04/09/2016 14:55

Found one! Ellie Simmonds comes out as BMI = 30.2. Being 4' tall with a non-standard body shape may not suit BMI calculators.
Richard Whitehead comes out as BMI=22.6, though.

Gmbk · 04/09/2016 15:00

Are people really that stupid they can't see that she is dangerously overweight by looking at her!

Bmi isn't a perfect measure but in this case it is backing up what everyone can see, the lady is overweight.

Stop with the bmi is bullshit when clearly in this case it isn't. There are few people for whom a bmi of over 30 is a good thing.

Of course for Ellie it won't be right, bmi relies on averages and she is outside average height.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 04/09/2016 15:08

In the picture her body is that of an older woman who is overweight. She doesn't look like a big women she looks morbidly obese

She looks extremely unhealthy for a women in her early 30's

She failed her medical that's that uii can fail for other reasons too

Maybe she needs to think about the impact of her weight on her health more rather that complaining things are not fair and she is being discriminated against

onecurrantbun1 · 04/09/2016 15:08

My mum and dad are FC and actually, you can be rejected (maybe not out right, but for certain matches) for those reasons. Wrt this woman's BMI: It is a more-than-full-time job and you can't be off sick. All this talk of 7- or 8- year-olds not running off: ahigh ppercentage of kids in FC have behavioural issues and developmental delays that mean actually, they may well run off.

I suspect that there are many more factors at play here, anyway. You don't have PR for FC (my parents had to get written approval fron their FC's bio parents to cut their hair, for e.g.) and they are not a permanent part of the family like an adopted child would be.

My Dad is technically obese (BMI is 32ish) but was allowed to foster due TO an active healthy lifestyle, healthyhome cooked food and totally storming through the medical - medical records empty and never a day off sick in 30 years.

Sillybillybonker · 04/09/2016 20:17

Muscle is a lot heavier than fat so a high BMI doesn't necessarily mean you are over weight. However, the woman in the article is clearly very overweight. You just need to look at the picture!

HermioneWeasley · 04/09/2016 20:38

Unless you are a top athlete, your muscle mass will not be sufficient to distort your BMI I'm afraid

Thefitfatty · 05/09/2016 06:26

Unless you are a top athlete, your muscle mass will not be sufficient to distort your BMI

That's not true at all. There are many people who work out enough to have athletic levels of muscle. While top athletes train heavily, most of that training is perfecting technique NOT building muscle.

Muscle gain is also highly dependent on gender and genetics. Some men and women gain muscle easily with little effort, others don't.

Generally top athletes (if they weight train at all, many distance runners will weight train very little) will only lift a few times a week, same as your average Joe or Jane weight lifter. It's not safe or recommended to do more than that as it's too much strain on your muscles.

The reason so many top athletes, especially in sports where speed is key, look so muscular and defined is because before competition they also work hard to lower their body fat to at least 20% and under.

People keep bringing up Michael Phelps and gymnasts as examples of top athletes with healthy BMI's. Yes, they do, because they have to have very strict diets and keep low body fat to make them faster or more agile.

If you look at events like hammer throw, javelin, rugby, boxing, weight lifting, fencing etc. where strength and endurance are prized over speed, you will find a lot of athletes listed as overweight to nearing obese. That's because they don't need under 20% body fat. There's no reason for them to be lean. They are better off well fed and a little padded. And that's when they are in peak form. In the off season they will gain even more body fat when they relax their diets but keep their muscle mass.

Rhonda Roussey weighs in at 5 ft 6 130 lbs for competition. She cuts heavily to get to that weight. When she's not fighting she says her happy weight is about 150/160. Which puts her in a just overweight (and I think she's fibbing a little, looking at her she's probably more 170 but that's because she's the same height as me and has a similar body shape and that's what I weigh in at).

At the end of the day, someone coming in at overweight or obese, who works out regularly and intensely is healthier than someone who has a healthy BMI but does nothing but sit on the couch.

BMI is NOT a diagnostic tool, it's a scientific calculation. I'm overweight by a stone and my doctor says keep up the good work you look fantastic and your healthy as a horse. I have nothing to gain whatsoever by getting into a healthy BMI range other than being able to fit into a size 10 I suppose. Which isn't really my priority in life.

In the case of the woman. No, she doesn't look healthy, and she's had a perforated bowel. In her case I think there were more reasons than her BMI, but that's just what someone said. That isn't to say that someone else her size, with no other health problems, whose active, and has a great deal of emotional stability and patience shouldn't be accepted as a foster parent. They should.

Collaborate · 05/09/2016 07:22

Speaking to a friend the other day, he lives local to a couple who are massively obese. They have 2 children. At first the kids were a normal size. Healthy looking.

Now they too are as obese as the parents, and they're under 10.

What chance have those kids got when they're given crap to eat all day? It's child abuse. And so what if they feel uncomfortable with it being said? So they damn well should.

EreniTheFrog · 05/09/2016 07:42

The whole fostering process is discriminatory though. Look on the board here - constant stories of potential carers being turned down because they took antidepressants 20 years ago. Nobody goes to the Daily Fail to complain about that.

MrsDeVere · 05/09/2016 07:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thefitfatty · 05/09/2016 07:53

MrsDevere my post was aimed at those saying that only elite athletes have enough muscle to skew their BMI. Which is simply untrue.

As I said at the end of my post, she doesn't look healthy. And that fact that she was treated for a perforated bowel would suggest she isn't healthy. However, I doubt that's the only reason she was turned down to be a foster carer.

I said before that my parents were FC's for 20 years. There a loads of kids who don't require a fit or energetic foster parent, but rather someone suited to dealing with difficult emotional issues and psychological trauma. If she had those types of traits and was turned away ONLY because of her BMI, than that's ridiculous. However, I doubt she has those skills and qualifications.

My guess is she wanted toddlers and she simply isn't suited to toddlers.

MrsDeVere · 05/09/2016 08:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HeddaLettuce · 05/09/2016 08:23

f you look at events like hammer throw, javelin, rugby, boxing, weight lifting, fencing etc. where strength and endurance are prized over speed, you will find a lot of athletes listed as overweight to nearing obese

They aren't morbidly obese though are they? And they are top level athletes, not the pudgy people moaning about how BMI is all wrong and they are so healthy, despite being five stone overweight.

Thefitfatty · 05/09/2016 08:24

We have to have a criteria for unproven FC. Weight has to be one of them.

Sure, but a high BMI shouldn't outweigh a PhD in child psychology for example. (which this lady didn't have).

HeddaLettuce · 05/09/2016 08:26

Yes, it's a very accurate mathematical calculation. It's a simple way to classify people into a weight category. What it isn't is a diagnostic tool

It's both.

Thefitfatty · 05/09/2016 08:37

They aren't morbidly obese though are they?

Olympic Bronze Medal winner in weightlifting Cheryl Haworth has a BMI of 45.2.

Olympic silver and bronze medal winner in weightlifting Agata Wrobel has a BMI of 40.1. She can clean and snatch 290 kgs and is a world record breaker.
Tang Gonghong, Olympic gold in weightlifting. BMI 40.1.

That's really the tip of the ice burg. And while I wouldn't call these ladies thin, I certainly wouldn't call them unfit or question their health. (wouldn't really question much cause they could break me in half).

BMI is a calculation, not a diagnostic tool.

But I guess I'm just one of those pudgy people. Biscuit

SoupDragon · 05/09/2016 08:39

If people can't tell the difference between an olympic athlete and someone who is fat then there is no hope.

Thefitfatty · 05/09/2016 08:44

It's both.

No it isn't.

www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/
BMI can be used as a screening tool but is not diagnostic of the body fatness or health of an individual.

www.cdc.gov/obesity/downloads/BMIforPactitioners.pdf
Because no single body fat measure clearly distinguishes health from disease or risk of disease, BMI should serve as the initial screening of overweight and obesity for adults. Health care providers should recognize that other factors, such as fat distribution,
genetics, and fitness level, contribute to an individual’s assessment
of disease risk.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/obesity/what-is-bmi.php
Because BMI does not measure body fat directly, it should not be used as a diagnostic tool.

MrsDeVere · 05/09/2016 08:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MoonriseKingdom · 05/09/2016 08:48

The problem with these articles is the LA has no right of reply due to confidentiality and the DM always takes their sob story at face value. It is likely a combination of morbid obesity plus other health problems. There may be other non medical reasons why she was rejected.

If the problem was purely weight then she could spend a year losing weight/ getting fit then be reconsidered. Going to the DM rather than doing this suggests that there is either immaturity on her part or a lot more to this story than she is telling.

Thefitfatty · 05/09/2016 08:49

If people can't tell the difference between an olympic athlete and someone who is fat then there is no hope.

I'm using olympic athletes as exampes because their height and weight are readily available.

I see lots of different shapes and sizes at my gym. I see women twice my size lifting more than their own body weight, or swinging around a damned pole like they are feathers, and then sit down to a salad. I also see women far skinnier than me unable to lift a 2 kilo weight or run more than a minute on a treadmill before they give up and go for a cigarette.

When I see them in their clothes later, I would probably pass the bigger ladies off as fat because I haven't seen what they can do. I would also probably consider the thinner ladies fit, which they aren't.

Fit comes in all shapes and sizes, and anyone whose actually been to a gym or participated in sports would see this.

Thefitfatty · 05/09/2016 08:53

MrsDeVere I was simply using that as an example. There should be a multitude of things considered (and there probably are). Not sure what a LAC is but I know that space in the persons hope is one of the factors. Our FC's had to have their own rooms. A health assessment is certainly a must, but to disqualify someone who is otherwise perfect for the role because of a high BMI would be silly. Which is why I have said multiple times There must have been other reasons She's simply running to the Daily Fail with the high BMI excuse.

CandyMcJingles · 05/09/2016 09:02

I have a disability and it was decided, with my input, that one job I applied for, was interviewed for and was in some ways perfect for the job, was not suitable due to my disability. The employer was willing to make adjustments but actually the environment, which was unchangeable, was just too challenging. I agreed with them. That wasn't discrimination.
I have been discriminated against when adjustments could have been made and weren't.

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